DOS

Well new to me anyway. I built up a Soma Smoothie 3 years ago and love it. It's my everyday commuter and sometime century choice. Tange Prestige tubing, rides like silk. (See pic).

I happened by the Soma site today and noticed they are offering a frame jointly developed with Rivendell called the San Marcos (see pic) and a stainless version of the Smoothie. Neither was available last time I visited the site.

I don't know that I care for the double top tube on the larger size Rivendell frames but the stainless smoothie is sweet looking, if pricey at 2k for the frame (I paid under 375 for my smoothie frame -- not including fork, which I repurposed from a bike I was replacing).

https://store.somafab.com/soma-smoothie-ss.html

Anyone riding either one of these frames?

rpenmanparker 

Such double top tube frames are popular in China and inspired the joke a la Mae West: "Is that a Chinese bike you're riding or are you just happy to see me?"

Campag4life

$2K? Umm, no.
Not when a much lighter, more vertically compliant, more laterally stiff alternative with tall head tube and only one top tube is available

Bah Humbug

I couldn't imagine paying $2k for a stainless frame when nice Ti and C frames are available at that price, but that's just me.

RJM

More than a few on the Rivendell Owners Bunch (via Google Groups) are riding the San Marcos. When I was buying my Roadeo I thought of just getting the San Marcos but opted to spend the cash. I'm glad I did because I also got a custom paint job and the Roadeo is more in line with what I wanted out of a bike. Here is a thread I started when I was going through the decision making process over at Riv Bunch.... https://groups.google.com/forum/#!se...c/ymbX2TanLT0J

But anyway, the San Marcos is reputed to be a very good riding bike...much like other Riv bikes. They are very stable and much less twitchy than something like the Madone I used to have, They descend really well, turn intuitively; really comfortable bikes that you can ride for the entire day without feeling it in your bones and they last forever. Depending on what components you decide on, you can set the bike up to be a fast bike, or turn it into a hybridish bike...whatever floats your boat. I think Grant is missing out by not marketing one of his frames as a randonneuring specific bike. Here is their page on the San Marcos - https://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-soma.htm

Campag4life

No doubt, that bike has its place. In particular I agree with Grant's philosophy on riding position...Grant is simply a proponent of French fit and I am as well. But make no mistake if performance if your goal. If you want speed, the same geometry in carbon fiber is going to blow away anything that Grant sells as sturdy and as lovable as Riv bikes are.
Lastly night I was on my group ride when the wick turned up...some serious speed with wind and climbing. I thanked my lucky stars to be on Roubaix and not on any Riv. Rivs are nice bikes for guys not into speed. I pass them all the time. Nice quaint chaps..sometimes wearing wool.

Seattle Forrest

If you want speed, ride a car. Speed isn't about carbon fiber or steel frames, it's about strong riders who put in a lot of saddle time, and it's also about being in the zone. Maybe you pass them all the time because they aren't street racing. There's a lot more to riding a bike than pretending everything is a race, people who do that tend to have fragile egos.

The OP didn't ask "How can I go faster?" the question was "Is anyone riding this frame that caught my eye." Your response was beyond useless. People should try to be helpful in this forum instead of just preaching.

RJM

Yeah, I'm sure you win your Cat 6 races a lot.

You know Grant is doing something right when roadies wet themselves in the hopes of insulting him and his bikes every chance they are mentioned.

Steve B.

Aside from all the asides, the San Marcos is a nice frame and twice as expensive as a Smoothie ES, for much the same functionality. And really that's what you're buying this style of frame for, to do a lot of things you can't, or wouldn't want to do on a fast carbon.

So really it would come down to do you want lugged steel or welded ?. As well as I'd rather have an 1-1/8" steerer for the ease of setup of the headset.

I too don't see the point to stainless. I'd get a Habenero Ti if I wanted something other then steel and not carbon or aluminum.

BoSoxYacht

It's not just you.

I know a frame builder that would build me a custom Ti or CF frame for less than that. I'd actually be the one building the frame(under his watchful eyes), but that only sweetens the deal IMO.

I wouldn't be doing the welding, but everything else would be my work.

DOS

I wouldn't pay 2k for the Soma frame either, but oddly if I had the cash I probably would spend 9k for a custom made steel frame made specifically for me.


This thread has gone in a direction I hadn't anticipated since I was not making any comparisons about frame materials. But since we went that way, some comments about the various posts:


Some of us are motivated to ride bikes, even road bikes, for reasons other than to get from point A to B most rapidly.


I have ridden lots of different frames made from various materials, have enjoyed the ride quality/road feel of some, not so much others. For a certain kind of ride experience that I personally like, steel is the only option.


Above said, when I want the bike to shoot forward when I stamp on the pedals to accelerate or go up hill, I leave my steel bikes home.


I have ridden a lot of carbon bikes, for pure road feel, none have delivered comparable, much less appreciably better, ride experience than my steel bikes, and for pure acceleration and speed, none have convinced me that they offer performance above the high end alu I have been riding for the last 6 years. That said a number have delivered better road feel than my alu with comparable or marginally better acceleration but not so much that I felt the expense was warranted since for me I would glean greater benefit by losing 5 pounds.


I don't get the references to Ti. I have ridden one only once so I admit my ignorance. But I never went back because I thought the ride paled in comparison to steel and the performance didn't come near alu or carbon.

shelbyfv

I saw a San Marcos recently and I think it looked nicer online than "in the flesh." Still a good price for a lugged frame. I don't understand the geometry though. Seems like a long top tube for the nominal size and not enough headtube to make up for it. I would be too stretched out with too much saddle to bar drop.

Campag4life

I also notice when I pass guys like you on your Riv and say hi, you kind of grunt...lol.

Campag4life

In bold. Isn't just about speed. None of us are pro riders. Its about energy expenditure, even if a slow rider. Take a rider who will struggle to finish a hilly century who averages 15mph. They will fare a lot better on any late model carbon bike than a Riv.

WestPablo

I just love the look of that Smoothie SS! Looks like Xmas will have only one gift under the tree this year

DOS

Well I think this a very broad generalization that is for the most part not true as it reflects a lot of myth about steel bike frames. While a well made carbon frame will likely have improved power transfer properties over comparable steel frame, those differences on paper are for the most part not noticeable to the average rider, particularly since we are talking about high end steel frames like the Riv, that use light, thin tubes, which in the hands of an expert builder can be built into very stiff and efficient frames. Moreover, many of these are designed with long distance touring and riding in mind so will deliver a more comfortable ride than will a race-minded set up of a lot of carbon frames, mitigating what is a relatively small energy advantage of the carbon. So a rider who struggles over hills for 100 miles on his high end steel bike this year, then drops 3k on a carbon bike in hopes of finishing stronger but does nothing to improve conditioning, may find himself regretting the expense when he still feels like crap at the end of the century next year. IMHO, for the average consumer who just likes to ride his bike 50-100 miles a week with the occasional century, steel is still the best bang for the buck for combination of performance and ride. Which is not to say I would drop 2k on stainless since what I am after can be had at a much lower price point. This is also not to say quality carbon doesn't have advantages over steel when it comes to power transfer , but these generally show up in more aggressive circumstances like racing and fast club rides.

RJM

That's ironic...I'm not the chest thumping meathead here.

You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

agent pombero

Holy ugliness double top tube!!

bikemig 

Originally Posted by Campag4life
In bold. Isn't just about speed. None of us are pro riders. Its about energy expenditure, even if a slow rider. Take a rider who will struggle to finish a hilly century who averages 15mph. They will fare a lot better on any late model carbon bike than a Riv.

No. 1.

I'm thinking there's a steel frame bike swimming around in this avatar:

bikemig 

So I really like Soma frames as well. Since you have a smoothie, why not get something a bit different like a double cross?

adrien

Hmmm.

Finished a hilly century on a lugged steel frame averaging 18.4. And I'm a clyde. Felt great. Bike is about 20 pounds.

I've ridden lots of carbon, including some high-end (S-works Roubaix and tarmac, plus a couple of Madones). Carbon feels clinical and kind of dead to me.

Oh, and I'm old-fashioned. The more modern, massive-head-tube and teeny-seat-stay bikes look very strange to me, almost like when the enterprise stretches into warp.

marqueemoon

I was initially pretty interested in the Smoothie SS. Then I saw the price. If I have $2K to drop on a frameset it will be custom for sure.

Campag4life

It isn't just about power transfer. Frame material and most importantly differential section modulus of carbon frames...a concept certainly RJM would never understand because it is well above his pay grade allow a frame builder to create a greater difference between vertical compliancy and lateral stiffness all while producing a much lighter frame. A stiffer front triangle in torsion produces a bike that handles better. Again, if speed isn't a priority, it doesn't matter. I have owned 30 steel road bikes...likely many more than the responders to this thread. I get the allure. To me carbon is far superior if performance is the objective having owned many of each.

For touring when carrying a 70 lb payload plus rider, it really doesn't matter does it. Steel makes sense...especially if designed for a 300# plus payload.

Campag4life

Nice job. You would have felt better and been faster if you rode that Sworks Roubaix on your century.
And those that are faithful to steel are old fashioned as steel is an old fashion frame material dating back to the invention of the bicycle.

Blue Belly

There's a lot more to a frame than its material. You can easily swap situations by tweaking geometry on either bike. Granted, each material has its "feel". Every variance in these materials have their "feel"
I'm glad that people are willing to keep the steel market rolling. Personally, having designed & built my own frame, I can't see spending a ton of money on a new steel frame when there are so many great used frames out there. The best that you can get from a steel frame is to have it built exactly for you. Even then, it'll likely be just a slight tweak in tubing length. Nothing that can't be obtained with a slightly different stem or saddle height adjustment. I spent no more than $500 building my frame. That included building the jig. Even with that money, an SLX steel frame from the 80's is in range. Between the late 80's & the early 90's, some of the best steel frames were produced. I love my frame & I can't put a value on all that I learned in the process. However, one thing that I did learn is that trying to perfect something that has been perfected is somewhat of a waste of time, when you can just go out, buy & enjoy it.
Im not going to lie & say I haven't been a guy who wants to ride something that has a cool name on it. I'm that guy! & I've paid the price to be that guy, at times. What that has left me with is the knowledge that most of the crap that people buy is hyped up, over inflated truths. If you want a great bicycle, you don't need to spend $4000. Get the geometry to fit what you want from a bike & a nice wheelset. Build it up with some solid parts & ride.