Originally Posted by xkjzix

Just an opinion from a guy who has studied just a tad in the area of biomechanics:

Non impact-related foot pain generally comes from tight/overactive muscles in the lower extremity. Gastrocnemius/Soleus pull on the achilles tendon and hence the calcaneus. This elongates/stretches the intrinsic muscles of the foot and the fascia can become inflamed leading to Plantar Fasciitis/ peroneus longus tendinitis and pain in the bottom of your foot.

Pain in your arch is likely NOT from too little arch support, it's from tight calf muscles. Massage and use a foam roller to help loosen them up, and hopefully your foot pain will go away.

Cyclists should not be predisposed to injuries/conditions due to hyperpronation/hypersupination (flat arch and high arch respectively) because that mechanism exists as a "shock absorber" in walking and running.

Originally Posted by woodcraft

Cork is sheet gasket material available at auto parts stores.

I say don't be afraid to experiment.

Arch support= ankle support= knee tracking= long trouble free riding.

Originally Posted by Campag4life

Thanks woodie. Experimentation with store bought supplies...an earlier poster suggested building up under arch with handlebar tape...is not much different than P.I. or Shimano selling their adjustable arch height insoles. Filling under arch void with a firm yet compliant material. Some believe firmer is better. I have skied with rigid feet insoles molded to my feet which were super comfortable...so there is a bit of an analogy to saddles...firmer can be better as long as there is fit agreement. Shoe makers sell low arch inserts because a flat foot wearer will suffer with too much arch support. Arches too high supinating the foot is no good either. Fitters use trial and error as due many cyclists who know intuitively after testing whether their arch is under or over supported. I have done what you propose with both ski boots and cycling insoles...cork with its firmness yet some compliancy is popular. But there are other materials as well...closed cell high density foam...even old shoe insole inserts cut in the shape of an arch and glued or 2 face taped under the arch. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by cyclezen

not to be contrary, but in my feet, whether walking, cycling or any other activity which applies force thru the ankle, the force first goes thru the ankle and then the arch and then, at some point (unless I'm walking on my heels) thru the forefoot.
Here's something to try.
Standing, with straight legs and feet flat on floor, WIth feet confortably spread (usually about hip width or just under), shift weight enough so that most of weight is on one leg, a very subtle shift. Now looking down at your feet/ankle, shift your weight back so that it's equally distributed between legs. For many/most of us, the foot will roll inward, the ankle will roll inward - pronation. The degree of this depends on many varied factors.
DO the same, but this time on the leg without any significant weight, raise the heel, bend the knee, so that when you shift the weight, the final pressure to the floor is all thru the forefoot. Now shift weight again so it' equal between legs, note the the inward roll of the ankle. It will likely be more than before - more pronation.
The heel is a major part of the foot structure, whether you weight the heel or not.
Everything goes from the ankle forward. If the heel, therfore the ankle, is stabiliized the arch deflects less, and the force at the forefoot is directed more equally across the forefoot.
From my experience, valgus shimming is the end of the chain and isn;t as good a fix as one which starts at the ankle and moves forward.
Varus adjustment starts the ball rolling. Supporting an arch can add a little, but is not that essential. Then a valgus adjustment is icing.

Even for cycling, where the heel is 'unweighted', unweiughted does not mean without force thru the ankle.
Now try this.
First test above, foot completely on floor. But this time, place a thin magazine (2-3mm) under just the inside of the heel of the unweighted foot. Now weight that leg/foot and watch the ankle, you'll likely see much less inward roll, less pronation. That's varus adjustment - crude, but still adjustment.
Now, in the world of stiff soled cycling shoes, we have the advantage of using varus adjustment to stack the ankle well, so that pronation can be addressed from the ankle forward.
If you're not sure... do first test, except this time place 3mm magazine under the ball of foot - just under the ball,, not the whole forefoot, not the heel, now weight the foot. Ankle still pronates. In fact, forefoot twist mores, you take it from there...
Feet are very complicated, nothing simple.
Full foot orthotics done by a real sports specialist would do the best. The inserts we get in most cycling shoes I've seen are throw-aways, as are those in ski boots and most other sportsw footwear. my take

Originally Posted by rpenmanparker

Although your experiments are a bit hard for me to reproduce, I take your point. Thanks for the detailed explanation of your view. I think it has merit. Am I right that you're saying with stiff cycling shoes the point of connection to the pedal is not so relevant; the shoe sole allows force to be applied from front to back? I could see that.

Your last comments are definitely in line with what I was saying about getting the fitting done right by a true professional rather than an LBS wonk.

Originally Posted by rpenmanparker

Although your experiments are a bit hard for me to reproduce, I take your point. Thanks for the detailed explanation of your view. I think it has merit. Am I right that you're saying with stiff cycling shoes the point of connection to the pedal is not so relevant; the shoe sole allows force to be applied from front to back? I could see that.

Your last comments are definitely in line with what I was saying about getting the fitting done right by a true professional rather than an LBS wonk.

Originally Posted by Slackerprince

This is spot-on. I deal with some Plantar Fasciitis, and DILIGENT stretching of my calves has, essentially, solved any arch issues.
I was using SuperFeet yellows, but have gone back to stock insoles after maintaining a good stretching regime.

S

Originally Posted by cyclezen

On LBS wonks, since you brought it up... and this is not to infer your take on them...

Originally Posted by xkjzix

Sweet. More and more people are realizing that healing can happen this way. Glad you are able to experience it. When I was running 40 miles a week I developed some awful tendinitis in both my knee and foot. Stretching and strengthening resolved both issues for me as well. Just recently started cycling, and about 3 months in started getting achilles pain. Again, stretching my calf resolved it in a week.

Originally Posted by xkjzix

Didn't you say you had to move your cleats back from pain? Anyway. Just to clarify, when I say stretch I mean keeping muscles supple, and in their best length-tension relationship through a variety of techniques. 'Myofascial release' would be a better term, but people got angry when I used big words. Campag, I've watched my mechanics they're fine. It's just certain muscles need training and strengthening. I understand you are a very experienced cyclist with a large body of cycling knowledge, that is obvious. But it is also obvious that you don't know a whole lot about how the body works. What you have learned, you have only learned from a cyclist's perspective through cyclists eyes, and likely from a cycling company trying to sell you something.

I doubt you have worked with, shadowed, and learned from professional sports and physical therapists that rehabilitate soccer players, runners, weightlifters, amputees, recumbent cyclists, volleyball, and post-surgery patients, and the list goes on. I have. Really not interested in your 'opinion' anymore. I'm glad other people are more open minded.