halfspeed

Sounds like some people need to read the yelling thread.

gregf83 

Don't give up so easily. If you ride with the group a few more times you'll get to know the routes and know where to pay attention. Groups will often have a change of pace at different points of the ride so you need to be aware of when you might need to ride harder. It will take a little while before you're comfortable riding in close proximity to others. Until you get comfortable you'll end up doing more work than necessary and your risk of being dropped will be higher.

There isn't a universal definition for a 'group ride' or the etiquette required. Many groups are just a collection of friends who like to ride together. You may be welcome to ride with them but they won't particularly care if you can keep up. If you keep riding with them it's likely you'll establish some friendships and become part of the group. Other groups might be sponsored by a bike shop so someone has a vested interest in trying to grow the membership and keep everyone happy.

Don't assume that every group is trying to recruit new members.

spdracr39

Well all the groups I ride with advertise the type of ride before starting. This information includes drop vs no drop, sag or no sag, average speed, exact planned route, and who to call if you have a medical or mechanical issue. We always go over these things before we leave. If you jumped into a 20 mph avg speed pace line group they probably were aggravated with you. If it was a no-drop ride then I would call the shop owner, complain, and find another group. Don't give up just be sure and comunicate with the group leader about your skill level and he will tell you if you fit the bill or if there are alternate groups to ride with. Don't give up on it though group rides can be very enjoyable when you find the right groups.

scplus5

I don't know if it was a drop or no drop ride. I was told there would be a couple groups and then everyone left at once. I was hanging in around 23mph, and was fine. One guy got in front, picked up the pace, I fell off a little. Noticed I was falling off the back, got in the drops and I was walking them down. I was only probably 3 lengths back at the stop sign, but couldn't make it through safely before the car got there. All that sucks, but it's not that bad. I can't be totally disappointed I got dropped on my first ride. What really gets me is how much of an a hole a couple guys were back at the shop. One in particular could use an attitude adjustment....

FLvector

I'd suggest to keep doing this ride as long as you feel its worth trying. If you keep a positive attitude and show that you'll be able to hang with this group, it may all work out for you. Sometimes the more experienced riders will test the newbies to see if they are up to the challenge. Dropping you at a stop sign due to traffic is bad form. Might have just been bad timing and won't happen the next time. Once you fall 3-4 bike lengths off the back and the group surges forward, you might not be able to get back on, so pay close attention to the surges. The dynamics to group rides are so different its difficult to generalize what's right and what's wrong. Try to make the best of it and after a few more attempts you'll figure it out.

JamesRL

Despite tons of riding, touring and commuting, and a few charity rides, I hadn't done a group ride before. I'd ridden with a few of my kids, but not a semi-organized group.

Luckily the group I was in was fairly relaxed. I knew a few of the riders from church, they belong to a group that does a number of tours a year. I think it helped that I was one of the younger guys. Most of these retirees though put in serious miles.

I think the comments about being aware are spot on. This group expects the person in the rear to call out approaching cars so the group can single file. Otherwise it was a pretty social group that often rode two abreast and chatted while riding a fairly relaxed pace (early in the season). There wasn't a pace line, but there was some drafting. When someone fell off, usually someone who knew the route stayed behind to help them catch up.

I don't expect every group to function this way. These guys are used to very long rides at a relaxed pace.

mlander

Details! C'mon, give us the dirt.

mlander

Did he not wave?

scplus5

I enjoy a good Internet forum bashing as much as anyone...it's one of my favorite past times. I'm going to keep this to myself for now though due to the off chance he may read it. Not because I don't want him to know he's a sorry little pansy POS a hole, but because I'd rather tell him to his face after the next ride rather than looking like a whiny, petty, thin skinned baby *****ing about him on the internet behind a keyboard. Let's just hope he won't open his mouth next time, because I won't be caught off guard by his BS again. My politeness might go out the window at that point.

mlander

Fair enough

Brian Ratliff

Excellent. Good for you; you know what you want. Now then, why are you spouting this in a thread about group riding? The activity is definitely not for everyone, but many enjoy it, especially once they are past the learning curve. There is an etiquette to learn though, to keep everyone safe and all; if you are too much of a rebel to engage this, then it's probably best if you stay away.

RL7836

Do some searches for local clubs. Often a club will have more rides at more levels than a bike shop.

wphamilton

So what's the consensus about using the stop sign to drop someone? I assume that the group ran the stop and OP had to stop, given that he was only three bike lengths back. Was that a jerk move and deliberate tactics, or just standard operating procedure?

Brian Ratliff

I suspect that three bike lengths was closer to 100yards once we are past internet ego. I mean, how else do you explain losing track of the group so fast? This ride kind of sounds like a hammer ride.

scplus5

3 lengths is 3 lengths. I had to wait for the car a few seconds. The group was booking it around 23 ish. Right after the sign, there was a small hill and a hard right. By the time I got around that hard right (remember I'm starting from a dead stop, they carried momentum around the turn and down the hill) they were nowhere in sight. They had already taken the next turn (which I didn't know as it was my first ride with them) and were completely out of sight. Spent the next 15 miles looking for them, hoping to cross paths on their return trip. Turns out, I went past the correct turn and looked down every wrong road. All I could find was culdesacs and headwinds.

Brian Ratliff

Well, it's a lesson. Really we are both right. You thought you were only three lengths behind, but the situation made that distance balloon out in very short order. There's a lesson on group dynamics there.

If they are going 23mph at the start of the ride, then it's a hammer ride, and that was their warmup pace, and they are not a "C" group ride, and they aren't in the habit of taking care of stragglers. As to wphamilton's comment about "using" the stop sign to drop a rider, it is what it is. You have to choose whether you are going to work with the group or if you are going to do your own thing. Hopefully, the group is well drilled in following traffic law, but sometimes they aren't. If you are going to ride with a group, you have to let the group dynamics supercede your personal riding style; otherwise you are not really riding with that group. You'll never hear it said straight out on an internet forum, but if the group is running stop signs, and you want to ride with them, then you need to do likewise. Part of that is staying with the group (not three bike lengths back) and moving as a cohesive single unit.

You might be better off easing into group riding with a more forgiving group. Ask someone. They might know of such a group. Everyone was a beginner once.

pavemen

Sorry it was a bad experience for you. My first group ride was a couple months ago and they were a great bunch. Luckily I was able to keep up, but I found that I was faster than 30-40% of them. It took several rides to get it figured out but they were all friendly. And by figured out I mean the route, the group dynamic, riding style was definitely different than my solo style, etc.

My first time I cut a slower guy off and he went of pavement but stayed upright. As I was passing there was a sharp curve I could barely make at the current speed. Tried slowing and staying out of his way but I cut short and he moved. We did not collide, but that pack took it in stride. I apologized at the regroup and again afterward. We have ridden together several times since.

The second time I was passing a young girl with her family and she moved over into my lane. I went off pavement into the ditch and barely stayed upright but hopped back on the trail just as the rest of the pack was catching up. Almost piled up there. They realized there was not much to be done and accepted the apology. I still ride with them.

So it sounds like you need to find a better group to ride with, but it also sounds like you need to question the group you are starting out wit a bit better about what you can expect. It is a two way kind of thing.

milkbaby

^This...

Also, to the OP (scplus5), hang in there, like Brian R said, there are different group rides, you may find one that is more suited to you. Additionally, you could still try the same group ride again but clarify their operating procedure/rules. I like to do two group rides a week, one is no-drop, the other one is not. The no-drop ride will typically slow down for the weakest link that day, at least to within the agreed upon cruising speeds. For the other ride, we've blown people up after a mile or two and they're on their own, too bad for them. But in both cases, people who show up regularly know the drill, and we will tell new people what's up if they show up and ask.

Brian Ratliff

Good job on your first group, but I would suggest slowing down and learning to ride your bike. You should not be having as many incidents as you've described in only a couple months. This group is being very patient with you.

RollCNY

IMO, cycling is an individual sport done in groups. It attracts technical people, many of who are introverts, many of who are not athletic in other pursuits, but who do well at cycling. A huge part of cycling is in your head, and many cyclists live in their head. This often leads to cyclists being perceived as snotty, or rude, or unaccepting of new people. But the truth may be that they lack the social graces on first introduction to appear as anything other than tools.

I ride with a group that is kind of "invite only", and someone needs to bring you in in order to join. Up front, I thought that a lot of the folks were rude, or were just trying to scrape me off of the back. But time showed me that they were there to enjoy themselves and not get hurt, so they were wary of a new guy doing squirrelly things. I would have thought that many of them were jerks on the first ride, but that perception dramatically changed over time.

Now I'm not saying the group that you rode with are or are not decent people, only that it may take more than one attempt to truly know.

bt

goenrdoug

^This is an important point.

The club rides I do every weekend have a mailing list attached to their website and there are 4 distinct groups. The route (with link to mapmyride.com) and ride expectations for each group are included in e-mails sent weekly. With all that, one can easily print the route directions on paper, save the route to their smartphone mapmyride.com app, etc.

The biggest point to take home, though, is to find a group riding at a pace you can keep up with. Sure, you can bust your hump to keep up with that group for a little while, but is that what you want to do right now? Maybe in a few months, but right now it sounds like you're just looking to get some miles under you belt with others on two wheels. I say these guys aren't the group for you (yet/ever.) There ARE other groups in your area, you might have to dig around on the internet or ask someone in spandex at a coffee shop some time...

FLvector

Being safe and coming home in one piece trumps taking any chances of running stop lights and stop signs just to stay with an aggressive group. When it comes to your own safety and need to stop to avoid approaching traffic, don't worry about getting dropped. There will always be another day, another ride. Some cyclists don't mind taking risks and I've seen some close calls on group rides. When other cyclists call "clear", be sure to look yourself and don't take their word for it. Its sometimes difficult to judge distance on fast moving roads.

My guess is the ride didn't start out at 23 mph, but after a good warmup, the pace was picking up. For many of our rides, this is tempo pace and most aren't struggling at all to stay on at this point. It sounds like this group had some stronger riders that were feeling in the mood to push the pace into the mid and upper 20's and quickly left you behind after the stop sign. This is a typical "A" ride with surges and attacks, and is not the right group to ride with if you're not an experienced group rider. They might have seen an opportunity to spit you off the back. If this is the case, find another group to ride with. If not, give it another go and leave the ego at home.

scplus5

meh. I'm not crying. The ride wasn't what I expected, nor what was described. I chose to not ride with them last Saturday because they told me on the phone their Saturday rides are "hammerfests". That's cool. They told me weekday rides are different, so I thought I'd try it to see which group I could hang with. I got dropped. Big deal...I already said I'm not shocked or upset about that. Disappointed in myself, absolutely.

If you think I'm out of line for being irritated when a d bag that I've never met starts talking crap about my wife and kids (who none of them have ever met)after the ride, then you're a bigger asshat than he is.

scplus5

...and all that is fine. There will be a day when I can keep up.

Its certainly a learning process and now and now I know more questions that I should ask before jumping in another ride.