Boulder Cycle Sport terminates relationship with Specialized.
11-09-14, 07:51 PM
#51
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I've heard directly from a shop owner about specialized business practices. "Legally", they're not doing anything wrong.
However, there's a bunch of "not written but clearly understood practices", assumed and derived from the actual contract, that are part of the day to day business and logistics the shop must comply with.
The enforcement and arm twisting of that gray area of the contract is what most shops complain about. It affects the shop's business, but it is not prosecute-able as no law has been broken and would be nothing more than a witch hunt. Many shops just comply as the sales/revenue numbers justify it.
My only beef in this issue is that my butt is specialized addict, and refuses to make friends with other brands (toupe and lately romin evo) don't want to see all shops within driving range being stripped of their dealership.
However, there's a bunch of "not written but clearly understood practices", assumed and derived from the actual contract, that are part of the day to day business and logistics the shop must comply with.
The enforcement and arm twisting of that gray area of the contract is what most shops complain about. It affects the shop's business, but it is not prosecute-able as no law has been broken and would be nothing more than a witch hunt. Many shops just comply as the sales/revenue numbers justify it.
My only beef in this issue is that my butt is specialized addict, and refuses to make friends with other brands (toupe and lately romin evo) don't want to see all shops within driving range being stripped of their dealership.
11-09-14, 08:13 PM
#52
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I'm arguing that folks are mouthing off about the big, bad S without knowing squat about it. Maybe the shop didn't pay their bills. Some companies put up with that stuff, other ones that are well managed give the customer the boot. Sure I don't know the facts, but neither do any of you. But Mom and Pop LBSs can do no wrong, and Spesh can do no right. It's ludicrous.
Oh, and I do know for sure it is spelled "breaking".
Oh, and I do know for sure it is spelled "breaking".
Specialized business practices are just making deals with the devil for retailers.
It's not even opinion. You can read all the material about it on the internet. I don't know why you are making these silly arguments.
You also realize that a business like Specialized can be a total ****** in business but make good products, don't you?
Some people, like me, will vote with their dollars by not buying.
Some people don't care either way, or don't know about Specialized business. They base simply on the product in hand.
I find the company's bully tactics disgusting. Their products are ok but certainly not worth it for me over a wide selection of other equally fine products.
Last edited by cruiserhead; 11-09-14 at 08:29 PM.
11-09-14, 08:38 PM
#53
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Lot of the saddles look the same to me. I don't see much difference between my Prologo Zero PAS and a Specialized Toupe. I'm sure there are other companies that make flat saddles with "Body-Geometry" cutouts. And just like Prologo and Specialized, probably use varied stiffness and padding for support, flex, weight etc.
Biggest difference you can get the other saddles on great discounts through big online shops like BackCountry, BikeWagon, CompetitiveCyclist whereas the Toupe is exclusively sold through brick n mortor shops, unless you find a used pair on ebay.
Which is another gripe. Specialized policy of fixing prices. I'm not going to get a smashing deal at one shop for Specialized Toupe than I would from another, the prices are fixed.
I don't even bother asking LBS for price estimates anymore. I know they are just going to look up price from their distributor and quote me MRSP full price.
- One time I saw a shop had sale price on KMC 10 speed chain, it was reasonable, figured I'd get it for next year. When he rang it up, it was the MSRP price that his distributor set. Screw that, put it back and bought Shimano 105 chain for $25 shipped on Nashbar month later. He didn't even honor the sale price that he had on the box, he looked at me showed me on his screen, it's $46 not $30, sorry. Whatever...
- Not saying all LBS are like this, I'm sure this was an unusual situation, but I just don't care about supporting LBS anymore. Sell bikes from companies that practice dirty business, playing the fixed price game, and no attempt to be competitive and providing a service anyone who wants to spend some time to learn to maintain their bike can do.
Biggest difference you can get the other saddles on great discounts through big online shops like BackCountry, BikeWagon, CompetitiveCyclist whereas the Toupe is exclusively sold through brick n mortor shops, unless you find a used pair on ebay.
Which is another gripe. Specialized policy of fixing prices. I'm not going to get a smashing deal at one shop for Specialized Toupe than I would from another, the prices are fixed.
I don't even bother asking LBS for price estimates anymore. I know they are just going to look up price from their distributor and quote me MRSP full price.
- One time I saw a shop had sale price on KMC 10 speed chain, it was reasonable, figured I'd get it for next year. When he rang it up, it was the MSRP price that his distributor set. Screw that, put it back and bought Shimano 105 chain for $25 shipped on Nashbar month later. He didn't even honor the sale price that he had on the box, he looked at me showed me on his screen, it's $46 not $30, sorry. Whatever...
- Not saying all LBS are like this, I'm sure this was an unusual situation, but I just don't care about supporting LBS anymore. Sell bikes from companies that practice dirty business, playing the fixed price game, and no attempt to be competitive and providing a service anyone who wants to spend some time to learn to maintain their bike can do.
11-09-14, 08:44 PM
#54
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You don't know what you're talking about.
Specialized business practices are just making deals with the devil for retailers.
It's not even opinion. You can read all the material about it on the internet. I don't know why you are making these silly arguments.
You also realize that a business like Specialized can be a total ****** in business but make good products, don't you?
Some people, like me, will vote with their dollars by not buying.
Some people don't care either way, or don't know about Specialized business. They base simply on the product in hand.
I find the company's bully tactics disgusting. Their products are ok but certainly not worth it for me over a wide selection of other equally fine products.
Specialized business practices are just making deals with the devil for retailers.
It's not even opinion. You can read all the material about it on the internet. I don't know why you are making these silly arguments.
You also realize that a business like Specialized can be a total ****** in business but make good products, don't you?
Some people, like me, will vote with their dollars by not buying.
Some people don't care either way, or don't know about Specialized business. They base simply on the product in hand.
I find the company's bully tactics disgusting. Their products are ok but certainly not worth it for me over a wide selection of other equally fine products.
Damn, that is authoritative. But what do you KNOW? I mean KNOW. I can really be convinced. Tell me the facts you KNOW. Convince me. Tell me the conversations you have overheard between an LBS and a Spesh rep. The documents you have seen, etc. Or the authoritative articles that have been published based on evidence like this. As it stands, it is all BS. But it is such addictive and attractive BS.
11-09-14, 08:46 PM
#55
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Lot of the saddles look the same to me. I don't see much difference between my Prologo Zero PAS and a Specialized Toupe. I'm sure there are other companies that make flat saddles with "Body-Geometry" cutouts. And just like Prologo and Specialized, probably use varied stiffness and padding for support, flex, weight etc.
Biggest difference you can get the other saddles on great discounts through big online shops like BackCountry, BikeWagon, CompetitiveCyclist whereas the Toupe is exclusively sold through brick n mortor shops, unless you find a used pair on ebay.
Which is another gripe. Specialized policy of fixing prices. I'm not going to get a smashing deal at one shop for Specialized Toupe than I would from another, the prices are fixed.
I don't even bother asking LBS for price estimates anymore. I know they are just going to look up price from their distributor and quote me MRSP full price.
- One time I saw a shop had sale price on KMC 10 speed chain, it was reasonable, figured I'd get it for next year. When he rang it up, it was the MSRP price that his distributor set. Screw that, put it back and bought Shimano 105 chain for $25 shipped on Nashbar month later. He didn't even honor the sale price that he had on the box, he looked at me showed me on his screen, it's $46 not $30, sorry. Whatever...
Biggest difference you can get the other saddles on great discounts through big online shops like BackCountry, BikeWagon, CompetitiveCyclist whereas the Toupe is exclusively sold through brick n mortor shops, unless you find a used pair on ebay.
Which is another gripe. Specialized policy of fixing prices. I'm not going to get a smashing deal at one shop for Specialized Toupe than I would from another, the prices are fixed.
I don't even bother asking LBS for price estimates anymore. I know they are just going to look up price from their distributor and quote me MRSP full price.
- One time I saw a shop had sale price on KMC 10 speed chain, it was reasonable, figured I'd get it for next year. When he rang it up, it was the MSRP price that his distributor set. Screw that, put it back and bought Shimano 105 chain for $25 shipped on Nashbar month later. He didn't even honor the sale price that he had on the box, he looked at me showed me on his screen, it's $46 not $30, sorry. Whatever...
The romin evo was just a suggestion from the shop owner (guy has been spot on with other suggestions regarding fit, shoes,etc). My butt liked it, i have two spares. I should not support that business as i wholeheartedly disagree with their business practices (they're real dicks with the shop owners), but my butt does not understand ethics and morals, and behaves just like any other addict.
11-09-14, 08:55 PM
#56
Senior Member
Oh, wait a minute! I didn't know it was on the internet. Damn, that is authoritative. But what do you KNOW? I mean KNOW. I can really be convinced. Tell me the facts you KNOW. Convince me. Tell me the conversations you have overheard between an LBS and a Spesh rep. The documents you have seen, etc. Or the authoritative articles that have been published based on evidence like this. As it stands, it is all BS. But it is such addictive and attractive BS.
Damn, that is authoritative. But what do you KNOW? I mean KNOW. I can really be convinced. Tell me the facts you KNOW. Convince me. Tell me the conversations you have overheard between an LBS and a Spesh rep. The documents you have seen, etc. Or the authoritative articles that have been published based on evidence like this. As it stands, it is all BS. But it is such addictive and attractive BS.Bicycle Retailer is pretty good with reporting bike industry news but many other instances of Specialized insane and stupid business tactics.
Specialized bully tactics are not some myth.
Yes I know shop owners who have S deals, refuse to have S deals, and all of the above.
Instead of demanding to be spoonfed, you should actually do a little research before you prove your ignorance publicly.
11-09-14, 08:57 PM
#57
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This is not even something to be debated. I am sponsored by a shop and have been by others.
Bicycle Retailer is pretty good with reporting bike industry news but many other instances of Specialized insane and stupid business tactics.
Specialized bully tactics are not some myth.
Yes I know shop owners who have S deals, refuse to have S deals, and all of the above.
Instead of demanding to be spoonfed, you should actually do a little research before you prove your ignorance publicly.
Bicycle Retailer is pretty good with reporting bike industry news but many other instances of Specialized insane and stupid business tactics.
Specialized bully tactics are not some myth.
Yes I know shop owners who have S deals, refuse to have S deals, and all of the above.
Instead of demanding to be spoonfed, you should actually do a little research before you prove your ignorance publicly.
11-10-14, 09:40 AM
#60
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I never said a kind word about Specialized. The only thing from them that I own is a pair of shoes. I'm just pointing out that no one has presented any real evidence of their manipulation of bike stores. Just a guy who knows a guy who said this and that. If you are a store owner, kindly tell us exactly what they did to you that was unfair. That is what I mean by I can be convinced. By the way, I don't consider it unfair, illegal, immoral or unethical for a company of any size to protect its brand from trademark and intellectual property infringement. Let just leave that stuff off the table.
11-10-14, 09:45 AM
#61
Senior Member
Why don't you talk to a shop owner? And not a some huge chain or huge store that has enough sale volume to sell multiple major US brands.
Ask a shop owner who used to sell Specialized but now sell Giant or some other more consumer/business friendly brand?
It's fun to do. I love talking to shop owners. If my commute isn't arriving for another 1.5 hours, because MBTA cut services while doubling fees, I'll go into a shop and start up some conversations. Better than sitting around in a coffee shop. I've asked every shop around why they chose to sell the brands they do. Most of 'em have said because Specialized were dicks and went with a brand that wasn't a dick.
Ask a shop owner who used to sell Specialized but now sell Giant or some other more consumer/business friendly brand?
It's fun to do. I love talking to shop owners. If my commute isn't arriving for another 1.5 hours, because MBTA cut services while doubling fees, I'll go into a shop and start up some conversations. Better than sitting around in a coffee shop. I've asked every shop around why they chose to sell the brands they do. Most of 'em have said because Specialized were dicks and went with a brand that wasn't a dick.
I never said a kind word about Specialized. The only thing from them that I own is a pair of shoes. I'm just pointing out that no one has presented any real evidence of their manipulation of bike stores. Just a guy who knows a guy who said this and that. If you are a store owner, kindly tell us exactly what they did to you that was unfair. That is what I mean by I can be convinced. By the way, I don't consider it unfair, illegal, immoral or unethical for a company of any size to protect its brand from trademark and intellectual property infringement. Let just leave that stuff off the table.
11-10-14, 10:00 AM
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I would ask you guys to simmer down, but given the topic I don't believe that will happen.
Closed.
Closed.
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