Sixty Fiver

I have worked with a lot of the younger mechanics who now work in a number of our local bicycle shops through the time I have been volunteering and teaching at the co-op...

At one point one of our local shop's staff was composed entirely of these alumni and the service was really good, it was not that these guys knew everything but more important was that they knew when to ask questions when they were out of their depth and took a great deal of pride in doing the job well. None of them have stayed at this shop and have moved on to other work.

One of those guys came to the co-op the other night while I was in working on the shop's tandem and he expressed a great deal of frustration as he works at the city's biggest shop and he does not like the high rates and service procedures (mechanics have to wait at the parts counter for everything)... he said he needed to come and work on bikes in a nicer environment and get grounded.

Last night a lovely young woman was attending a class and said the shop she bought her bike from had quoted her $200.00 to replace her cassette and chain on a bike (9 speed) that is otherwise 100%... I told her that the shop did have a slightly higher price on the parts but that they were probably billing her a fixed amount of time for what was a 10 - 15 minute job.

I told her that if she wanted to pick up the cassette and chain at the shop it was just under $60.00 and that swapping it would take me 10 minutes and she actually timed me... because I was explaining to the class how this was done it actually took me 12 minutes but I also checked her drivetrain to make sure the shifting was spot on.

I know the lead mechanic who used to work there... he never would have billed someone this rate for a job that is so basic but then, he no longer works at this shop and runs another shop in the city where he has more control.

Our city is seeing a movement toward smaller shops like mine and now there are 4 of us out there turning wrenches, I partner with one of these shops and that friend is also a member here... his work ethic and level of work is truly outstanding and he also brings a great deal of joy with him.

Like me, he loves what he does... we love classic and vintage bicycles and working on older bicycles that aren't ready to be put out to pasture because they are "obsolete". I do see a lot of business from people who ride some pretty spectacular vintage bicycles that they won't take anywhere else.

pfaustus

A lot of it is just cluelessness, like expecting a young mechanic to diagnosis carburetor problems.

Example # 1. I stopped on a ride at a local LBS, because something had come loose that I had just [obviously insufficiently] tightened before leaving. I was on my 3 speed. This is a place stuffed to the rafters with carbon bikes and expensive clothes. The first wrench the young mechanic tried didn't fit. He said "it must be a 14." I replied "No it is probably whitworth, but 11/16th fits." He looked at me like I had just grown horns out of my head. I don't think whitworth was in his vocabulary and I'm not sure he had ever used ASE wrenches on a bicycle

Example #2 . I stopped at a different LBS, looking for a cheap seat post. This place sells lots of beach cruisers and hybrids. I asked if he had any 1" seat posts. He said no. I turned to leave, but thought to turn back and ask "What about 25.4?" He pulled out a full shoe box and asked "Is that what 25.4 is?" He doesn't get the pass that the kid got. He is at least fifty and has supposedly been in the business for decades.

Insidious C. 

Oh I had forgotten this one. Many years ago I was looking at bikes at a shop in So Cal. Looking, because my bike had been stolen just a few weeks earlier. Then I spotted my stolen bike in the shop! I asked about it and was told the shop owner bought it at a local pawn shop and had been riding it. The police helped me recover my bike.

Like I said this was long ago but the shop is still there. I was pissed at the time because this guy's business was high-end bikes and he surely knew he was buying a stolen bike. In the end I was out a pair of 7400 DA pedals, Cinelli 64 bars and a Regal saddle.

Rocky Gravol

The bike mechanic near me that I know and trust the most,
some people don't like him because he can be a little gruff and opinionated.
But hey, aren't all true craftsmen?

Personally I like the guy, we hang out at the same places, drink the same beer.

When it comes to repairs, getting your bike back on the road, he'll do them while you wait.
Almost forcing you to wait. He doesn't have a lot of room in his shop so he doesn't
like it when I want to just drop the bike off and come back in a few hours.

But when it comes to what he considers a "maintenance" item he'll tell me to make an
appointment, four, six, eight weeks in advance.

So I'll take the bike to another shop in the neighborhood, and these young kids
get a thrill out of working on CV bikes. Especially French bikes.
They must be hip. So they push me to the front.

ericbaker

Bicycle Alley in Worcetser, MA has a highly qualified classic and vintage mechanic, a couple actually... yes, one of them is me

dddd

I think it was sixtyfiver's post, when my headache was finally starting to go away. Good post!

I've seen just about al kinds of examples of wrongful work done on bikes, and have become the go-to for problems that local shops seem to have caused.

I don't blame the shops for half of these mistakes, but some of them show poor follow-up on a repeat problem. We all can make mistakes, but must be accountable and learn from them.

I do have issues with misdiagnosis in order to sell expensive parts, or "routine" replacement of good parts.
Just yesterday I took on a case of a racer's suddenly difficult-to-change tire, and it turns out that her shop removed the prescribed two layers of stan's tape from a featherweight wheel rim with a trough-shaped rim cavity.
The thick Velox tape that the shop stuffed in there just folded over at the edges since it couldn't curve both into the rim and around the rim without creasing and leaving a double-layer with sticky side up.
I was able to fix this by cutting individual pieces of Velox tape for the low-count of rather small spoke holes, and tire changing is now a hands-free affair, easier than ever.
It actually pained me to tell the customer what the other shop had done, especially since I didn't have the Stan's tape in stock and because she (the bike's owner) had emailed the wheel builder to complain about the tire fit, only to be reminded that two layers of the thin, flexible Stan's tape, as was supplied with the new wheels, was the proper way to do it.
If only she hadn't taken her wheel to this shop for a new tire(!), but I gained a new customer going forward.

EDIT, I have to say that I followed up today in finding out exactly why the good rim tape was removed, and it turns out that the actual reason was a broken spoke. Also, I had to edit because I called the Velox tape Rema tape for no good reason.
So, shop needed to remove the tape, and the Velox tape that they installed was probably the best that they had on hand.
So working on bikes can be tricky, and mistakes are bound to happen.

Rabid Koala

I have pretty much done all of my own wrenching, except for building a couple of wheels early on in my re-entry to cycling. I do those now, too.

It gets really frustrating when I go in a shop and ask for something simple, only to get the hard upsell. Case in point, I needed about 6 feet of STI shift housing in silver. The guy takes me to the cable kits for about $40, which I didn't need or want. I told him that I needed just the housing cut to length. His response? "I don't think we can do that". I persisted, and he decided that he could. After much annoyance I left with my cable housing. This shop just recently failed, I wonder why???

Earlier in my C&V riding, I needed some Campy brake pads. I went to a store that had previously treated me nicely, a very upscale store in La Jolla, CA. When I asked the guy behind the counter if he had these, he told me with a great amount of annoyance in his voice that "those are obsolete" and intimated that I was stupid for even asking. I went straight home and found the Kool Stop replacements at Excel Sports, and vowed to always check online first to spare myself the abuse from people like this. Would it have killed him to be nice about it? I would have left empty handed but I would not have left angry.

likebike23

I wrench all of my own bikes, but occasionally will have a shop true a wheel or remove a part I don't have the tool for. I have to say that my area is pretty darned C&V friendly. I'm not saying all of them are, and I've been to just about every one in the Pioneer Valley. I stay away from the shops that don't appreciate C&V as a rule. I think having UMASS and the other colleges helps. There is a great C&V culture in the Amherst/Northampton area, I love seeing all of the bikes locked up around town. Many of the shops have been in business for years with the same core group of mechanics and have pretty much seen it all.

Today I went to one of my favorite shops (Highland Hardware and Bike) looking for an inner chainring bolt and spacer for an old Sakae crank. Robbie stopped working on a mint Free Spirit 5 speed townie with 26x1 3/8 wheels to help me out. He only had a larger spacer, but gave it to me a said to put a file in a vise and grind it down. No charge and it worked perfectly. I'm not sure if it's ok to give them a plug, but hey good service should be acknowledged. They also had several very old bikes hanging from the rafters (a good sign in my book).

Sixty Fiver

Happy to help.

This am I finished up an overhaul on a 1983 Norco Sasquatch ATB which was a Giant built bicycle and in it's day, was pretty top shelf.

Many other shops would have told the owner to get a new bike but if you consider the high quality lugged construction and high quality parts this bike has, and the nice little upgrades like the mid-nineties XT drivetrain... it was well worth the small outlay to make sure it was running as smooth as silk and would keep running that way.

etherhuffer 

Rode my retro-turd Fuji Gran Tourer around a 60 mile city loop today. 30 pounds of road hugging weight! God I love that turd. Its going to Cino Heroica again next week. Shameless plug for Stu at Alki bikes in Seattle. I had some questions about some components and rode it in. He told the young wrenches in the shop "hey guys, look at this bike" He had a Fuji America long ago and wanted the young guys to look at what he used to ride. Very c+v friendly.

arex

I have the good fortune of having had really good luck with the two local shops I've used. Honest assessments, decent quotes, and a willingness to accommodate my stupid ideas.

Monkey D.Luffy

One shop told me 20-30$ to remove a left pedal that has managed to get itself stuck really good. Needless to say I did not pay them that much, when the bike was only worth about double that.

RobbieTunes

I just worked on a bike today that was "tuned up" locally before being sold on CL.
The seller even mentioned the bike shop. It had it's ups and downs.

1-New tires, tubes, New Nitto quill, New Nitto Noodle, New Serfas Seca tires, New 105 compact crankset, chain, cassette, calipers.
2-STI's were 9-sp. FD was 8-sp and mounted crookedly. RD was 8-sp and simply didn't shift well.
3-All the housings were brake housing, including the STI housing and RD housing.
4-Poor wrap job, and worn. (I see this from shops a lot, it's a time thing.)
5-The FD mounting bolt (braze-on) had the wrong bolt and no concave washer.
6-Front wheel was 2mm out of true.

The bike was still a bargain, in my opinion, with a nice frame, Fulcrum R 5 wheels, and after 3 hours of work, I had it tight and right.

Am I better than the shop? Maybe a better wrench, but NO. It took me 3 hours.
No way a shop could fix all that, spend even 2 hours on it, and not charge $200 and ruin the seller's options (other than keeping it.)
So, I didn't blame the shop. I think they did what it took to get it out the door, at a price the seller wouldn't scream at.
There-in lies the problem. You have to be good, you have to be fast, and you have to be cheap. Tough market.

old's'cool

In my advancing years I've found that one of the secrets to true inner peace is low expectations, and this certainly applies to getting service for pay from others. When the outcome is positive, it really makes my day.
Like many here, another secret to inner peace is doing things for myself.

coolkat

I still like them, but I was in a shop recently with a slow shifting problem that I later diagnosed as an old chain/worn freewheel. They told me the problem was that "those old Suntour derailleurs never shifted very well."

miamijim

IMHO it unreasonable to expect any shop with relatively young employees to know how to wrench a C&V bike. Times change.

Sixty Fiver

If they were early Suntour indexed shifters... they did not shift that well but nothing beats Suntour's friction derailleurs and their latter indexed stuff was very well designed but by then it was too late for them to catch up and regain ground on Shimano.

Consider that many of the young wrenches at shops were not even alive when Suntour was #1 in the OEM market and only got displaced when indexed systems took over... their only experience with Suntour might be with lower to middle range SR / Suntour components.

The fellow who owned the Sasquatch was interested to know that his bike had originally been fitted with a full Mountech group and I explained that when the rear derailleur worked it was about as good as it got but there were design issues that caused premature failures.

Then I pointed out that the mid nineties XT it been upgraded with was still one of my favourite parts groups and to this day you don't find better shifting parts.

Sixty Fiver

The basics are still the basics.

I don't expect these young mechs to possess arcane knowledge and it seems that in most cases the complaints do regard a failure to understand the basics and apply them.

The most important skill a mechanic can have is the ability to ask questions of people who know the right answers... I have had several head mechanics from different shops call me to get information on this or that (this is a pretty regular thing) while I still do the same when I run into something unfamiliar but I am rarely baffled by anything mechanical.

holden west

A non-scientific way of evaluating a shop is if they have not-for-sale vintage bikes on display. There are a few in my town that do this, including this shop I visited for the first time today (360 degree view here). The staff was young but they seemed familiar with classic bikes and in fact one young fellow builds his own frames using Columbus tubing. It's no guarantee they are the experts on classics but there's a good chance that if there's a problem there'll be someone available who knows a thing or two.

Chombi

You can't always blame the bike shop as veteran mechanics eventually move on, and a younger generation of mechanics that have grown up with just more modern bike tech takes over. And unless the bike shop is really geared towards C&V and retro bikes, there's just not enough business reason to hire mechanics with C&V wrenching skills.... I guess the real problem will be when the commit some sort of misrepresentation when they service your bike and end up with a mess, as described by people on this thread.
We just have to find the C&V savvy.knowledgeable LBS's to avoid problems.
Here in my neighborhood, American Cyclery of SF had been always a good place to bring my stuff to have them do the thing's I don't have tools for, like headset race installation (which is pretty much the only thing I cannot yet do at home at this point), but the mechanics and sales people there (even the younger ones) had also been a good source of information and guidance like when I get stuff together for a wheel build or searching for old parts, bits and pieces in their parts drawers that I need when refreshing components.

Steve Whitlatch 

My local LBS is pretty C&V friendly. They have a $5 used parts bin and do pretty good work. Of course they want to sell the new stuff first but do work on the old. Main Street in Carpentersville Il. They also have some very nice vintage classics hanging on the walls. I do buy cables and other things for some of my flip bikes from them so they do make money off of me. It`s a very nice shop and very close to home.

AAZ

I also work on my own bikes, but occasionally need a shop to remove a part I don't have the tool for. When these circumstances arise, I receive excellent service at a few shops in Seattle.

These places often have employees that have been there for many years.

crank_addict

Robbie, I get your viewpoint but these are supposed to be the 'PROFESSIONALS'. I guess for service, perhaps an up front written quote for actual work to be done would suffice. Simple. If it takes 3 hour's for a repair, the customer needs to realize that and associated cost of labor. I think all customers would appreciate knowing... cheap or pricey. If the customer balks and goes elsewhere, so be it. Quality and fairness first. If the job lacks or not to customer satisfaction, dealer / shop eats the time for a re-do.

Back to the C&V owner and bike shop relationship:
The C&V owner may not suit a particular 'PRO' cycle store or the shop may be hackers on a prized bike. Here's where they may fail.

The store can harp on about the latest, lightest, prettiest this and that, represent companies that make machines with CF, exotic metals, etc. but if they incorrectly service or booger Mister or Mrs. C&V, what kind of message does it send when they're in the market for something new?

repechage

I read today a few articles on bike shop earnings and compensation. Mechanics on average earn less than those who have less than a high school education. So, they are working there for other reasons just as they did decades ago, to be around bikes, to help support their racing, certainly not for the money. C&V bikes are outliers to the normal course of business now, the interested or the "old hands" will have the knowledge or capability. It is of no surprise that C&V bikes do not get the attention even if the basic engineering is more straightforward. I would classify most on this forum as frugal, for the jobs a fair percentage might visit a shop for, those requiring a special tool(s), we as a group are more knowledgeable and more demanding as we know when the BS button is being used.

I read that bicycle retailing has been compared to a perfect market, a place as a seller one does not want to be. The cards are all held by the consumer. (Or the brand or distributor) better luck doing repairs and selling clothing. It should be of no surprise that the number of local bike shops has not stopped declining, apparently the shrinkage has slowed, but not reversed.

verktyg 

Chombi,

I live across the Bay and stop by American Cyclery whenever I'm over in the city and have a few minutes time. I'm always treated like a customer whether I buy anything or not. The folks at Citizen Chain have also been good to deal with too.

Bicycle Odyssey over in Sausalito is also a good place to visit as well as Stones Cyclery in Alameda. Palo Alto Bicycles is generally pretty good. There are several C&V shops down in San Jose/Santa Clara. California Pedaler in Danville is a friendly shop too.

One thing that these shops all have in common is that I'm treated like a "CUSTOMER" - the reason why the employees have jobs.

I may be just looking for a cable or small part but then one day I may just walk in and say "I want that one" (a new bike or whatever). That's what customers do!

To me, anyone who's mechanically inclined enough to work on a bike should also be curious enough to at least consider learning something about older bikes!

I don't cotton fools well!

verktyg

Chas.