Digital_Cowboy

Did I say or imply that I did not? There have been times when I have in fact been out riding that I have passed slower moving vehicles. Most recently (within the last month or so) I and friends were leaving The Pier in Downtown St. Petersburg. The road on The Pier itself is one lane but merges into an area of the road which is two lanes wide. There was a car in the right hand lane that was impeding us cyclists because it was going slower than the posted speed limit.

I signaled and moved into the left lane and passed said vehicle and then signaled and moved back to the right hand lane in front of said vehicle and was able to put enough space between myself and the vehicle that I passed that I was not in any way impeding said vehicle.

benjdm

What states provide a width of 10 feet? The only explicit width I know of is 14 feet.

Digital_Cowboy

I'll do the same, only I don't wait until there are 5 or more cars behind me. I'll move over (as long as it is safe for me to do so) if there are 2 or 3 cars "backed up" behind me.

If I cannot safely move over to allow them to pass then they just have to wait until it is either safe for me to move over or for them to pass me without endangering either of us.

Sadly, I have seen too many motorists pass me even when there is traffic in the oncoming lane making it unsafe for them to safely pass me. Likewise I have seen motorists pass me on what is for all intent and purposes is a blind curve.

I have to wonder just what the bloody hell they are thinking when they make such moves.

Chris516

I don't assume I am visible. I make sure I am visible.

I was actually talking with one of my relatives today about their driving(they brought it up). They were saying how easy it is to go over the speed limit without pressing the gas pedal. I told them, if that is about to happen, for them to take their **** foot off the gas pedal!! They reacted like 'duh.....how do I do that?'.

My lane position, is because of drivers like my relative.

So I am always looking/listening around me to see/hear what is happening.

Yesterday, I was coming back from a convenience store. At one point, I turned onto a two-lane blacktop that runs underneath a major state highway, and is parallel to a set of railroad tracks that run through the old center of the neighboring city. As I continued down that road, the fire engine I had heard a couple moments before I got on that road had stopped under the state highway overpass, next to the railroad tracks. A driver is a vehicle similar to a Dodge Caravan(one of those types of vehicles), had jumped the curb, gone down a small embankment, and ended up on the railroad tracks. The commuter train on those very tracks, came within about 10-20ft. of, killing the motorist.

Now, If I had been in front of that driver, the way they were driving to have an accident like that, I would have been ALL THE WAY out to the double-yellow line so they wouldn't run me off the road, like they ran off the road.

Digital_Cowboy

That is the width of the lanes on the road in question. In fact I would I would hazard to guess that a great many roads in St. Petersburg are of similar width. Yes, there are roads with wide outside lanes, or with "extra" wide lanes, but they seem to be the exception not the norm.

The norm appears to be at most 12' but usually closer to 8' in width.

Digital_Cowboy

You are probably right.

We all need to "slow down and smell the roses." Think of the reduction in stress in our daily lives if we did that.

Digital_Cowboy

That the operator of the BMW should have waited until it was safe for him to make his turn. Instead of being impatient and turning in front of a vehicle that had the right of way and and that being impatient, turning into the wrong lane. There is NOTHING that I could have done to have changed the outcome.

As I had come to a full, foot down on the pavement stop. I had nowhere to move to, to avoid being hit. Unless you are suggesting that I the operator of a vehicle that was legally stopped at a stop sign at a four-way stop should have done something to prevent the crash.

If so please explain what I could/should have done differently to have effected the outcome of this crash.

RobertHurst

That's exactly what I said, or thought I said. If there is a disagreement it will ultimately be up to other members of society to determine whether or not the cyclist's actions were reasonable or not. The rider does not have the last word.

RobertHurst

Have you measured, or is that your guess?

People's guesses about the width of things are often way off.

Still I know there are a lot of very narrow lanes around there. They are probably closer to 10-foot though at their smallest. Still skinnier than most bike paths. Barely wide enough for a truck to fit. A modern Camry is well over 7 feet mirror to mirror.

As long as we're clear that lane-sharing is physically impossible in an 8-10 foot lane.

Digital_Cowboy

No, I have not actually stopped and measured the width. I am only guestimating the width. As I've said most of the roads I ride on have very narrow lanes. Clearly much narrower then the 14' standard.

I agree with you fully that they are too narrow to safely share with most cars, let alone a smallish semi, such as the one that I encountered earlier this week.

noisebeam

How do they compare to the road after the right turn where I follow the yellow truck in the first vid I posted ?

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post14387516

RobertHurst

Impossible.

Unless you can reach inside of vehicles and physically turn distracted drivers' heads.

Chris516

No, Not actually, or every once in a while. Yet I never claimed anyone was. I was stating, why I won't.

In the vein of FRAP, it still includes 'taking the lane'.

I don't care if I tick off a motorist. Because there is no reason to allow motorists' to run a cyclist off the road on account of them thinking 'bikes don't belong on the road'. Also, I am fully aware the a motorist, just as I a cyclist, has places to, people to see, and things to do. But that doesn't mean they have to be selfish doing it.

Now this just had me ROTFLMHO!!!!!!

What is 'reasonably necessary', is a matter of definition, and one that a motorist cannot make for a cyclist. So if that pisses them off, then so be it. When I encounter that, I will deal with it accordingly.

Since when did 'SHARE THE ROAD', equate to 'SHARE THE LANE'. I am not hogging any space on the road.

Exactly, That is why I don't maintain a 'road position' that gives motorists' even greater opportunity to run me off the road, just because they don't like cyclists' and can't bare the thought of not being able to drive over the posted speed limit. It may be Napoleonic to you. But my experiences tell me otherwise.

I would pass her at the earliest LEGAL chance I had. That means, I would not cross a double-yellow to do it.

genec

Been telling him that for weeks now... he thinks he has some special power...

RobertHurst

I didn't say they were too narrow to share 'safely.' That's a subjective judgment. I said they were so narrow that it would be physically impossible to fit a cyclist beside a typical vehicle. There's not enough space for a small vehicle and a two-foot-wide cyclist to physically fit side-by-side, at any speed, even 0. So if any kind of lane-sharing is going on there I would say your lanes are at least 10 or 11 feet. Still pretty narrow though.

I suggest all the time that people should take a tape measure out and check lanes, paths, etc. Almost everybody has a weirdly exaggerated sense of width for things on the ground. Ten feet looks like 8 feet. 15 feet looks like 10. Most people think their 5- or 6-foot sidewalks are 4-foot sidewalks. Etc. I don't know why but maybe it's because we think of something 7 feet as being really, really tall. Turns out if you lay a 7-footer on the ground across the typical suburban sidewalk, he's just six inches over the edge on either side. It's kind of disappointing. Brings down the whole human race. We have some 7-foot wide bike lanes here in Denver. They don't seem Lou Alcinder wide.

Chris516

Exactly!!!!

Chris516

Exactly

On my bi-weekly commute south, I go on a major artery, that has a blind curve like the one in the pic. While the road in question, that I travel on is a four-lane road, that doesn't make the blind curve any better. I will go out to the white broken line that separates the passing lane, from the slow lane, in an additional effort to make myself more visible. If that isn't enough, I try to pedal even harder, for the distance of the curve.

hagen2456

Which is how that girl got killed a little more than a week ago north of Copenhagen.

Chris516

I checked the speed limits out. I would 'take the lane' IF, the speed limit 25mph lower. But that is me.

Paul Barnard

That's very selfish of you. Pissed off motorists take their anger out on cyclists on a regular basis and often with deadly consequences. There are a lot more motorists than cyclists and that equates to money and political pull. Don't think for a second that laws can be drafted to severely restrict our use of the roads. When I am a motorist I make an effort to blend harmoniously with other traffic. That doesn't change when I hop on my bike. You militants aren't doing us much good on the advocacy front.

RobertHurst

If I understand the type of collision you had, it is not terribly uncommon, and somewhat preventable.

I actually cover this in my book Art of [Urban] Cycling, in a chapter called "Corner Cutters." [p. 104-5 in the second edition.] And there is even a diagram of your collision, which I drew myself.

Goes a little something like this:

" ... Suddenly -- a screech of tires from your right side. A car turning left from the far side of the boulevard carves directly at you. This guy's spotted a minuscule gap in the oncoming traffic, and, rather than wait ten seconds, has chosen to risk the health of several motorists, including himself, to shoot the gap. His line is taking him directly toward the apex of the corner, across the wrong side of the street, directly at your front wheel. Unfortunately, he hasn't seen you at all, he's so focused on oncoming traffic."

" ... The corner-cutting phenomenon is a good reason to roll slowly toward intersections, to be patient, and to stay 5 feet or more back from the corner, just out of the cutter's favored path. That way the cyclist's well-being is not dependent on drivers who don't think twice about who or what might be waiting for them around the corner."

Practical application of a defensive, vigilant mindset. Lots more where that came from in my book if anyone's interested.

Chris516

Agreed

Chris516

Replace it with the rabbit!!!!

hagen2456

I feel that you're overlooking one rather important thing here:

Good drivers will take the curve you refer to very alertly. They may not expect cyclists, but they'll know that just about anything may hide behind the curve: a deer, a drunk, a broken down car. Goes for good drivers both from behind and ahead. So, it's not the good drivers that are the problem. It's the bad drivers. They'll take that curve at high speed, not for one moment thinking that anything will get in the way of their car. Those from ahead might even overtake another car!

Now, do you really for one moment think that taking the lane in that curve will protect you from bad drivers? I don't. I'd hug that roadside like a maniac.

Commodus

I think it's a bit of nonsense that another road user doing something perfectly legal can somehow turn a reasonable driver into a homicidal maniac.

No one should care if they are ticking other road users off, and in my experience very few actually do. Everyone is just trying to get where they are going in an efficient, safe, legal and courteous fashion. When you turn left, does it keep you up at night that the people behind you are going to a few seconds later to their destination?