Cycling Ethics...
03-21-15, 06:42 AM
#227
out walking the earth
if intended to be that's actually not funny
***psa***
there are a gaggle of old guys here who be more than happy to support (almost*) anyone.
*Not RTC
Edit: of course if this is a commentary on living in Boston and not the Motherland, well done.
***psa***
there are a gaggle of old guys here who be more than happy to support (almost*) anyone.
*Not RTC
Edit: of course if this is a commentary on living in Boston and not the Motherland, well done.
Last edited by gsteinb; 03-21-15 at 06:47 AM.
03-21-15, 09:33 AM
#232
Senior Member
Long as we're being all serious and stuff, it's not always 100% the best part of us that comes through here. Mikey's not actually that grouchy IRL, neither am I, gary gave me a hug the first time he met me, I'm sure Doge is cool, too. And for all that some people seem to think that I hate Fudgy's guts, it ain't so. I'll buy a beer or coffee for anyone who's ever in my neck of the woods. Unless you're a mormon, I guess, in which case I'll buy you an orange juice or something.
Uuuhhhh, jerks.
03-21-15, 09:49 AM
#233
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“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”
― Aristotle
Ethics influence choice. How do you want to be remembered or known by others?
― Aristotle
Ethics influence choice. How do you want to be remembered or known by others?
03-21-15, 09:57 AM
#234
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I remember reading this article when it was published. My intention in posting is absolutely not to make light of Doge's past injury, whatever that may have been. I think the theory that moral/ethical judgments are informed by two different systems, one emotional and one utilitarian, is very interesting and illuminating.
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/science/22brain.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/science/22brain.html
Originally Posted by that article
“I think it’s very convincing now that there are at least two systems working when we make moral judgments,” said Joshua Greene, a psychologist at Harvard who was not involved in the study. “There’s an emotional system that depends on this specific part of the brain, and another system that performs more utilitarian cost-benefit analyses which in these people is clearly intact.”
03-21-15, 12:16 PM
#236
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Maybe it's the teacher part of me that has stopped me from entering into this argument previously, but I'm glad someone else is having to deal with the dilemma of ethics with teaching in mind. It blows my mind how often middle school students have questions or actions that involve these kinds of arguments and "solutions" to their classroom problems, i.e. "I didn't know I couldn't do that" or "you're the only teacher who doesn't let us do "X"." I have to often step back and remember they are in middle school, and some need these moments to be genuine life-lessons. This is especially important to me - every teacher would like to think their class is important, but as a Civics teacher, I care less about making them informed voters and more about making them informed and responsible citizens - one day they're going to be our neighbors.
That being said, it truly scares me how often I hear parents (and sometimes, even teachers) share the similarly-shady ethical views of their students. If you wonder where it comes, first check the home. Then, check the neighborhood/community (and the classroom.) That does not mean that Doge (or any one else here) is a bad parent; it is not my right to say how to parent, or to judge them. However, from a strictly professional standpoint, there ARE times when I am REQUIRED to speak up about moral/ethical issues that I see. Do I suspect that abuse is happening? Did your math teacher leave posters up uncovered during a standardized state test? Did you take Rx drugs to do better on a test but don't have a Rx? Laws are in place that put me in the awkward position of being responsible for judging people - not an enviable position, when my day is full of so many other things. My point is, however, that cultural differences are one thing that totally need to be considered and do not get enough consideration in many areas around the country (and world, for that matter.) We'd all like to believe that the values we believe are the best and are "true" - but the problem is, a lot of people fail on actually putting those ideals into practice in their daily lives, because they're too hard to follow, too idealistic, put us at an unfair advantage.
As a former-student/current teacher/soccer coach/everyday human being with a very strong right-wrong moral/ethical compass (oddly, from a non-religious family background), I'm not sure where it came from that I get so agitated with this. However, stuff like this gives me the eye-twitch moments. I was the kid that would feel sick and turn myself in to my parents because I knew I did something wrong. I know that isn't normal. That probably is the same feeling that the committee (any sport, really) want athletes to feel, but can rarely inspire. I know that middle school soccer players need a TON of ethical coaching in addition to sport coaching - and that is the reason why in three years I have never broken a .500 record. Winning isn't important enough to lose my job, my reputation, and my personal understanding of ethics that I would cheat. YMMV.
/rant
That being said, it truly scares me how often I hear parents (and sometimes, even teachers) share the similarly-shady ethical views of their students. If you wonder where it comes, first check the home. Then, check the neighborhood/community (and the classroom.) That does not mean that Doge (or any one else here) is a bad parent; it is not my right to say how to parent, or to judge them. However, from a strictly professional standpoint, there ARE times when I am REQUIRED to speak up about moral/ethical issues that I see. Do I suspect that abuse is happening? Did your math teacher leave posters up uncovered during a standardized state test? Did you take Rx drugs to do better on a test but don't have a Rx? Laws are in place that put me in the awkward position of being responsible for judging people - not an enviable position, when my day is full of so many other things. My point is, however, that cultural differences are one thing that totally need to be considered and do not get enough consideration in many areas around the country (and world, for that matter.) We'd all like to believe that the values we believe are the best and are "true" - but the problem is, a lot of people fail on actually putting those ideals into practice in their daily lives, because they're too hard to follow, too idealistic, put us at an unfair advantage.
As a former-student/current teacher/soccer coach/everyday human being with a very strong right-wrong moral/ethical compass (oddly, from a non-religious family background), I'm not sure where it came from that I get so agitated with this. However, stuff like this gives me the eye-twitch moments. I was the kid that would feel sick and turn myself in to my parents because I knew I did something wrong. I know that isn't normal. That probably is the same feeling that the committee (any sport, really) want athletes to feel, but can rarely inspire. I know that middle school soccer players need a TON of ethical coaching in addition to sport coaching - and that is the reason why in three years I have never broken a .500 record. Winning isn't important enough to lose my job, my reputation, and my personal understanding of ethics that I would cheat. YMMV.
/rant
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03-21-15, 03:06 PM
#238
commu*ist spy
where are you planning to go? I just did across texas and southern half of pacific coast, which was gorgeous. I heard the northern half is even better. If you haven't already, try doing warmshowers.
03-21-15, 03:52 PM
#239
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I rode the Oregon coast back in 8th grade (circa '93) with a friend and his dad. Awesome ride, beautiful scenery, much recommend.
03-21-15, 04:11 PM
#240
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Mikey was going to do a cross country trip a few years ago but his riding companion bailed. Fulfill your dreams. You'll find a way to get the time off of work and the money to do it. Too bad we'll miss you in Sunday. It was nice to catch up.
03-23-15, 04:30 AM
#241
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First, great post. Second, I wanted to pull this out. Not to make a P&R thing out of this, but people tangle up the morality and religion thing a lot. From everything I've seen, they don't have a heck of a lot to do with one another. I wouldn't consider it odd at all that you can have a strong moral compass from a non-religious background. That's all. And to be clear, same is true from the side as well. Basically I don't think there's any reason to pull religious upbringing into it from any perspective.
03-23-15, 04:39 AM
#242
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As a university faculty member, they recently changed policy here and now I'm a mandatory reporter for a lot of things. Not just sexual misconduct (though it does bug me that I'm required to report that to the title IX officer if both people are members of the university community rather than going straight to the cops, which would be my preference), but all sorts of things. When my students would tell me things before in confidence, I can no longer give them that assurance. And my student who was talking in the lab about getting mugged the previous weekend? Even though he already reported it to the cops, I have to do so again or risk losing my job. Most of the rest of it makes sense, but sometimes I wish there was a bit of flexibility. On the other hand, not having any sort of absolves me of responsibility if things go bad as long as I follow the rules.
03-27-15, 03:13 PM
#243
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I was told it was in poor form to intentionally enter a stage race and quite right after the 1st stage.
04-03-15, 02:03 PM
#246
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Dude, come hang. Lets hit up BKB soon. I'm only around for a bit longer due to life stuffs.
Do it! I'm planning to vanish for 1.5 months this summer. Looking forward to it like woah.
04-07-15, 07:46 AM
#248
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Normally, yes, not in this case as it was going to be just one race.
04-07-15, 08:05 AM
#249
Senior Member
^ If it's a 2 day race and the second day isn't in the cards then I think it's okay.
I've never finished a proper stage race, btw, and it isn't because I quit. I always got eliminated at the end of the first day (2 day race) or third day (4 day race, at least it was 4 stages). Whenever the RR happened I was out. My first stage race was a 2 RR stage race and they let me start the second stage because pity. I got shelled almost immediately.
What I'm saying is that if there was a stage race and there were some flatter bits in the first days and I was feeling magnanimous then it might be that I start the race with the intent to help teammates knowing full well I wouldn't make the cut on the queen stage. Heck many (most?) of the road races I started were like that, I knew I wouldn't be in the field after the first lap so I just worked for my teammates, dropped out, and headed home.
I've never finished a proper stage race, btw, and it isn't because I quit. I always got eliminated at the end of the first day (2 day race) or third day (4 day race, at least it was 4 stages). Whenever the RR happened I was out. My first stage race was a 2 RR stage race and they let me start the second stage because pity. I got shelled almost immediately.
What I'm saying is that if there was a stage race and there were some flatter bits in the first days and I was feeling magnanimous then it might be that I start the race with the intent to help teammates knowing full well I wouldn't make the cut on the queen stage. Heck many (most?) of the road races I started were like that, I knew I wouldn't be in the field after the first lap so I just worked for my teammates, dropped out, and headed home.
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"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
04-07-15, 08:06 AM
#250
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Seems they were not weighing bikes in any of stages in the Limburg (Belgium) stage race this last weekend. We had weight bolted onto the BB.