avole

Let me start by saying my Brompton is a 6 gear 2013 model, whereas the Neo is new and has only three. Also, as the bikes are separated by a 12 hour flight, any comparisons can’t be direct. What is interesting is that the Neo isn’t simply a Brompton clone, having quick release hinge mechanisms, and most importantly an aluminium frame. It also claims to be designed in France though production is in Taiwan.



The Neo costs 300€, and you get a lot for your money. The handlebars adjust in height and angle, both pedals fold, the seat is adjustable and has a standard fitting, gears are Sturmey Archer, and the quality of the manufacture appears good. It comes with a steel rack, but without pump, lights, or any options save some velcro tape, which serves to secure the bike when folded. You even have to buy the octopus straps. Only two colors available, by the way, orange or yellow. There is a manual: two photocopied A4 pages, in my case torn in half.

The Neo is definitely lighter than the Brompton, as you’d expect with the use of aluminium. It feels a lighter bike to pedal, too, although more skittish over ruts in the road. I was a little put off on the first day’s ride, because there seemed to be some steering wander which was a unnerving when cycling through Thai towns where all other traffic has one speed, flat out, except for the scooters travelling on the wrong side of the road in your direction. I’d deflated the front tyre endeavoring to do a Brompton style fold, and thought that might be part of the problem. 55psi is maximum recommended pressure, less than that for the Schwalbes.

That problem was to remain over the next 100kms, but I got used to it, assuming the slight vagueness was a consequence of the cheap price. Also, I found the bike more suited to my frame than the Brompton, and consequently a more pleasant cycle. The saddle goes up higher, so my pedaling position was better, and the handlebar adjustment gave me again more height and better control. The brakes seem both good and solid, but braking performance, although it did improve, isn’t up to the Brompton level. A change of brake blocks should change them for the better.



One downside is the fold. Once I’d sorted it out via a thorough study of the youtube video, I found it easier, though the velcro strap isn’t in the same league as the Brompton lugs. Without it, however, the fold expands and contracts like a concertina. On the other hand, the larger wheels on the rack made it easier to push than the Brompton, and kept the bike more stable when doing so over uneven flooring. The hinge mechanisms are neater than the old-fashioned Brompton versions, although I have to say I would have felt much more secure with that type after I discovered what was causing the steering vagueness, which brings me to the reason why I’m not 100% certain about this bike.



On the final press back into Hua Hin over longitudinal ruts I happened to look down. Now, I checked the security of the frame clamp ever day, but perhaps because of the greater than normal unevenness in the road I saw the two sides give about 1mm. It was possible to recreate this movement by simply changing direction suddenly. I had no tools, but the bike shop was on the way back so I continued, if more gingerly than before. If you look at the pictures, you’ll see how the clamp works and how to adjust it. Obviously that was the problem, but that adjustment is critical. Anyway, shortly afterwards I discovered when the bike fell down a steep slope (I’d left it leaning against a fragile railing which gave way), too loose and the clamp breaks apart.

I was leaving the next day so didn’t have time to examine or adjust the clamp.The bike shop fixed it so there was no give and no flex, which cured my one major criticism of the ride, but I do have strong doubts about how well the clamp performs its function. Yes, the frame was rigid, but it was now nearly impossible to undo so the hinge would open.

I can’t recommend this bike because of the doubts concerning the security of the clamp. It is a critical safety feature. I’m going to see when I get back about having a more secure clamp fitted, or at the least look at finding a way to lock that clamp securely by changing to better quality components inside.

It’s a shame, as otherwise the Neo does improve over the Brompton in many ways, although the latter always feels the more solid bike. Just to finish, here's my Brompton:

Schwinnsta

Your pictures are not showing up. You need to host them on a site other than photobucket.

2_i 

I use TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

avole

Took the Brompton out today and, despite gale-force winds and driving rain, was reminded of just how solid a bike it is, and how well thought out. OK, it wasn't ideal conditions, but my feeling remains you can push the Neo faster than you can the Brompton, and the extra adjustability make it a pleasanter ride. However, it's fold isn't a patch on the Brompton, as it leaves the chain on the outside, not the inside, plus if you lose the velcro, you have a folded bike with a mind of its own.

I'm obviously aware of the problems with the photos and will repost them in the days to come. By the way, I read that tinypic are owned by photobucket, so that's a no go zone for me.

avole

Well, succeeded in linking two stamp-size photos.. Afraid that is the best I can do.

tudorowen1

Have a look at this thread on page two..Another Brompton clone..lots of comments and pictures..
Another Brompton Clone

And part time resident of Hua Hin..

avole

Not many seem to have hands-on experience with these bikes, though, which is why I posted this thread. The Neo is, by the way, a direct descendant of Brompton's own licensing agreement with them, and also a development. No matter what the history may be, the bike itself is worthy of consideration, particularly if that hinge coupling is less of a the problem it seems to be. Were it not for the concerns I expressed, I'd recommend it over the Brompton not only for VFM but because it is an improvement in areas Brompton have neglected.

I've cycled through parts of Thailand, Cambodia and Australia with the Brompton, by the way, and am well aware of its capabilities, so I don't say that lightly. I was in fact inquiring about a Brompton when the bike shop suggested the Neo. Also bear in mind that the Brompton costs the same price as a Honda Click in two of those three countries. I'll keep mine, but won't be taking it to SE Asia or Australia in the future.

You are right, by the way, the ride took me down through Khao Tao, Sam Roi Yot national park to Bang Saphan. The national park is a brilliant ride, although nearly turned tragic as I narrowly avoided slamming into a family of monkeys who'd decided to rest on the road just around a blind corner!

2_i 

I have got SideWinder for Brompton which makes handling of the folded bike pretty straightforward around different obstacles and over different surfaces. Only stairs remain some challenge. The exposed chain obviously diminishes the utility of Neo.

avole

Here's a couple more photos, now I've mastered the art of posting photos!


This looks to be a straight copy of Brompton, and probably used their tooling.


This handlebar setup is original to the Neo, and you can see the greater degree of adjustability the Neo gives over the Brompton - definitely an improvement, in my view. I'd also add those brake levers feel a lot more substantial than the Brompton originals, to the point where I'm going to change mine.


A nice, if puzzling, thought from the maker. Note the French flag on the stem, which reads "Designed in France". That's a definite "hmm..."


Overall, the quality of finish is very good, especially considering the price. In Thailand the Neo comes with a 3 year warranty.

berlinonaut

Thank you for this writeup - very interesting!

What do you mean with "standard fitting" and how would the Brompton's seat not be adjustable?

The hub gears seem to be the same S/A SRF3 that Brompton used to use until they rebranded it to BSR (Brompton Standard Range), but still being more or less the same hub as far as I know.


This really makes me wonder. In most cases with Aluminium on a frame you'd have to use more material to gain the same level of stability, therefor I would not expect the Neo to be considerably lighter regarding the frame alone. Did you actually weight the two bikes?

What one can say is that the Al-rack on the Brompton is possibly a tad lighter than the steel on the Neo, but other than that the Neo seems to have an Al-seat-post (lighter) the Al stem (possibly lighter) three gears instead of six on the Brommi (+ ~200g), your Brommi has the Shimano-hub-lightening (+ ~500g). Therefor your Brommi has a weight penalty of ~700g by additional features alone. If you are running Schwalbe Marathons or Marathon+ on your Brommi (as it seems to be the case) add another weight penalty of several 100g.

Not saying that the Neo could not be lighter than the Brompton but being lighter is not necessarily an advantage, especially if it comes along with less endurance as could possibly be suspected. And being lighter by having less features is easy.

This really makes me wonder again: A bike with three gears instead of six and - more important - 55 PSI instead of 100 PSI is lighter to pedal? Sounds really unreasonable to me.

Again, on your Brommi the Shimano dynamo hub adds noticable drag, even when turned off, as do the Marathons (or even worse the Marathon+). I do not know the Kenda-tires on the Neo but clearly the lower pressure should make you end up with a far higher rolling resistance. Plus the are possibly more prone to punctures by design.

If you want your Brommi to roll smother exchange your Shimano hub to a SON or a SP and get rid of the Marathons.
Put Kojaks on and appropriate pressure on them and you Brompton will fly like never before (until the next puncture of course ). The (discontinued) stock Brompton-Kevelar tires (and now possibly the new stock tires from 2018 on: Schwalbe Marathon Racer) will possibly be the best compromise.

A higher saddle is a consequence of a higher seat-post. Which is available for the Brompton, obviously you just did not go for it. A higher handlebar is again available for the Brompton, possible even more height as on the Neo if desired. Again you end up with which options you choose when buying your Brommi - you could have chosen differently...
Now that you already have your S-Brompton exchange the S-bar with a 15$ aftermarket riser bar and you are set hightwise. You can gain up to 10cms of height that way. Plus you get the same level of adjustability of the bars (that the S-bar, being streight, is obviously lacking). What is possible (cannot judge) is that the forward angle of the Neo's stem might be different and by accident be better suited for your body than the S-Brompton. This would however be individual and not a general feature. The various stem options on the Brompton offer various heights, angels and adjustabilities - with the lack of height-adjustment on the Brommi on any given stem clearly being a negative point.

The pleasant ride may come from a different frame geometry. If you look at the angel of the Neo's fork...



... you'll recognize that this looks a bit like on a chopper motorcycle. This will possibly make the ride less rigid (the more with less pressure on the tires) but possibly will provide a not-so-good feel at higher speeds and especially when cornering.

I'd at least feel a little bit flimsy about the Brake bolts that are shown on your picture of the rear end - the look like the cheapest piece of tin one can find. Does not look to trustworthy to be honest.

To say it frankly: The fold seems to be just crap.

On your Brompton, according to your photo, you have the tiny stock wheels that are pretty crappy for rolling the folded bike. Since the early 2000s the easy wheels have been available from Brompton to solve this problem. Since 2016 the stock wheels are bigger (no more need for easy wheels) and it rolls very good, especially with a rack.

To be honest: The hinge mechanism looks not trustworthy at all. On the Brompton it may look oldfashioned but the simple tractor-mechanics are fool-proof to use, maintenance free and last forever. Just the opposite than the one on the Neo: Look neater, are not fool-proof, in no way maintenance free and do not look like they would last long. Which even mirrors your own experience with the Neo just after a couple of rides... It is broken by design.

Does not sound like a good experience on a pretty new bike.

Thanks again for the insight though I would not agree with your conclusions to the full. Most of the advantages you outline are not features of the Neo but due to differences in what you bought featurewise - being easier on the Neo with just one set of features available. The hinge mechanism makes the Neo an impossible choice in my eyes. And while it may look really shine on the first look I highly doubt that this bike will last when used heavily.

Clearly for 300 € it is an amazing featureset on the first look. But on the other hand Butler Adams outlined in his talk at google a couple of years ago about what it would cost to make a Brompton. If I remember correctly the price for the materials and parts alone (not counting the labor) was more than the buy price for the whole Neo for you as a consumer... This says something.

To me the Neo clearly looks shinier than most Brompton clones regarding the optics. Regarding the rest it seems to be the same as the other clones: The makers took shortcuts, copied without understanding and being cheap was more important than making something properly. So they are using cheaper parts (like i.e. the generic stem, common on many Asian folders, typically being not very rigid), and where the modified instead of straight copying they made things worse, not only on the hinges but look i.e. at the front mudguard in comparison to the Brompton: it is missing the mudflap. Fun in the rain. Look at the lack of mounting point for a carrier block. Look at how the front fork is made. etc. etc.

I would highly doubt that this bike passed any norm-tests that are mandatory to be able to sell them in most western countries and looking at the frame hinge I would highly doubt that it would pass them. Does not matter as possibly they would be sued anyway when trying to sell this bike in Europe due to it being an too obvious copy.

I've never ridden a Neo but I saw one in real life last year and immediately noticed that the shiny optics do not seem to be matched by the build quality.

One question: Could you measure the wheelbase of the Neo? On the photos it looks quite short (shorter than the Brompton), but it may be a misjudgment caused by thicker tubing and the stem having less of an angle than the S-Brommi. The distance from the saddle to the bars look clearly shorter.

berlinonaut

Congrats! They illustrate your report quite nicely! Thanks for all the effort!



This shows the flimsy bolt on brake for mounting the cable.

I never liked the old Brompton brake levers that you have on your Brommi. They have been using far better ones from 2013 on and changed them a bit again in 2017 to enable the mounting of the new gear shifters they are using now. They enhance the braking massively and I would recommend them heavyly. They are however a bit expensive (though very very good) and you can choose from a whole range of 3rd-party brake levers that would fit, be better than the old style Brompton-ones and far cheaper than the newer ones (but possibly a tad less good from a how-it-feels-perspective).

avole

Instead of making comments on a bike you haven't ridden please read my posts a little more closely. You'll see why, for example, your comments about weighing the bike do not apply.

Also, if you do disagree with my post, as you have every right do so, please apply a little more logic to your remarks. I'm not knocking Brompton, merely pointing out the differences, and also areas where the Neo shows improvements, like seat height and handlebar adjustments. These are my impressions and opinions, which you can certainly dispute, though it might be better if you tried the offending bike first.

berlinonaut

Sorry, can't see your point and especially not about the weight. It is fair enough for you to state that the Neo seems to be lighter than your (!) Brompton but still it would have more evidence if you actually weighted both bikes. But with the bikes having a vastly different set of features that influence the weight it is a bit pointless. The Neo should therefor best be compared with a Brompton S3R with stock tires and w/o lights to remain fair. It may still be lighter but who knows?

As about the riding: I live in Europe where the Neo is not available. The one I saw last year was locked to a fence and probably self-imported by it's unknown rider.

Nothing against your post or your observations. But looking at the enhancements you found it is mainly

- the price
- better looking hinges
- possibly weight

the rest is either dependend from the set of features that you've chosen for your Brompton (tires, hub-dynamo, length of the seat post), due to the fact that you compare an older Brompton with an outdated featureset, having features like the Brake levers or the wheels that have been enhanced on current bikes or on the Neo things have not been enhanced but made worse than on the original (like i.e. the cheap pedals that are prone to fall apart quickly, the hinges or the folding mechanism). Still your opinion is your opinion and you have every right to have it. And so do I.

The point is: I think you are at some points drawing wrong conclusions caused by the differences in features.


Or to look at it from a more funny perspective:

This



is lighter, cheaper and possibly more comfy to ride than that:



Still the second one, being the original, has it's advantages in endurance (when maintained properly) as well as in other aspects. And it makes not much sense to favor the first one over the second in general just because you choose the wrong size with the second. SNCR.

Rarely a cheap copy has ever been better than the original. Still for some the copy may be fit for their purpose, especially it the original would be overdone for that purpose. Therefore the Neo may have it's friends. I am none of them, the more as I do not like copycats. And to me it looks like a classical example for "the one who buys cheaply first often buys twice".

avole

Sorry, didn't bother to read your last post and, to be honest, didn't read most of your others, either. Life is too short. I realise you think Brompton make the best bikes in the world, and shouldn't be questioned by people who aren't of the faith. Clearly my fault for buying and riding a derivative, and then having the temerity to highlight its good points. I do apologise

If it makes you feel better, re-read the last two paragraphs of my original post. You don't have to quote them.

Schwinnsta

The second one looks like it would have much higher maintenance costs.

wesgreen

Thanks, Avole! Great pics. If this came with a Sram coaster hub, and I could check out that hinge beforehand, I'd be very tempted to get this just as a travel bike, even with those tiny wheels. Great price. What would you guess to be the probable rider height and weight limits?

Rick Imby

I love the look of the Brommie/Neo but I just cannot get over the tiny wheels----grin----compared to the 406s on my swift and Dahons.

I am certainly jealous of the tiny size both these bikes become when folded.

dahoneezz

To make a 3 speed into a 6 speed, its just two sprokets and shifter+cable. So I don't think you will save much weight by going down to 3 speed. Its the 3 speed hub which is about a kilo in weight.

dahoneezz

The clamp is odd. I would assume that most clamp, the "clampity" bits will be on the opposite side of the hinge, (as far away). You will see this on most Dahon/Tern/Brompton type hinges. For the Neo, the clampity bits are inside the hinge, inline with the main axis of the frame.

From the pic, I assume that when you engage the hinge, it will pull up the two aluminum (?) blocks and wedge itself on a lip of the inside hinge. On the hinge side without the blocks, there is a channel cut out. So there is less material for the block to engage in. Lower block is not supported at the bottom. Free to cantilever.

dahoneezz

I am no expert on Brompton, but I know that the 3 speed hub weights almost a kilo . To convert 3 to 6 speed by adding 2 sprokets, some cables, shifter, chain pusher won't add another kilo.

The rest (tires) I have no idea.

With regards to Black Edition, I think its only paint (or anodizing). So not much weight difference. Price difference yes . Unless the Black Editions include titanium , then a little weight reduction, a massive price increase.

maxxevv

Thanks avole, great information sharing.

I have seen the Neo up close, but never ridden it. Its indeed pretty impressive weight wise when compared with a steel Brommie.

This is forum, people are here looking for information or very kindly in this case, taken time to share their experiences. There is really no need for anyone to treat bike brand loyalty like a religion or a political POV either.

avole

Thanks for all the comments, positive and otherwise!

To address some specific issues:

• Maximum weight is listed as 110kg for rider, clothes and baggage. The rear pannier maximum is 13 kg. I was riding with an all up weight of less than 90kg.
• I can't comment on height. I'm a smidge under 180 cms and the ride position is fine for me
• The hinge works as you can see from the picture by raising the two blocks when lowering. You can't see from the picture, but there are two lugs they clamp over. The upper nut adjusts the top block, and the lower one, which requires and allen key, the lower. When you release the clamp, the springs should push the blocks down so you can open the bike. I didn't look closely, as I got back then had to pack everything up prior to getting the bus to the airport, but the springs didn't seem to be working that effectively after the bike shop adjusted them and it took a heftyy shove to get the blocks to allow the hinge to open. I'll check this in November when I'm back.
• One thing I forgot to mention is that there's no way to fit something like the Brompton bag to the front of the bike. If you're going to travel at or just within the maximum permitted weight, this means you have to put everything on the back, instead of doing the 10kg front/10kg rear split.

As a PS, and as a result of my experiences with the Neo, I'm going to look at changing the handlebars to wider ones that aren't straight but swept up slightly to give 1 or 2 cms of extra height. As luck would have it I'm taking the Brompton to the UK next week so will stop in at a dealer and discuss the matter. I'll definitely change the brake levers.

foldingdroid

Thanks Avole for sharing your thoughts and actual experience with the Neo 203.

Is the wheel 16" or 18"?

berlinonaut

In fact it is one additional cog (as the three-speed has to have one already ), the shifter and the shifter cable. And you change the chain tensioner for a derailleur. All together +200g in comparison to the 3-speed. Absolutely worth it. Or go for two-speed if you want to stay light.

Winfried

Yeah, right.

It's missing 1) the lug in the front to carry a frame-mounted bag and 2) the front wheel doesn't fold over the chain, a bad idea when carrying the bike in public transit or in a car trunk:



Dahon's alternative looks more promising.

Out of curiosity, where are you located in France?