Little Darwin

On the higher cost for final value, it does suck, but Ebay was clear that they were lowering the insertion fees in order to get people to post more items for sale without worrying about what happens if it doesn't sell.

My fear with this policy is that I am going to have to page through more pages of similar items from the professional Ebayers.

And as far as receiving no feedback, I can honestly say that I used to keep my items on my Ebay page until I either received feedback or it fell off by eing too old. I nevr prompted for feedback, so I realized that it is best for me to remove the item from my "bought" listing immediately (less stress). However, the few times I sell, I do leave it on the list because a feedback is the only method to ensure an item was received.

I think if I were to sell an item and not see feedback after a reasonable time, I would probably compose a message asking if he item was received (a real customer service, truly wanting to know if the item was received safely) I would probably mention briefly that I am used to getting positive feedback if the item was received intact and in the condition advertised.

Sammyboy

This is not quite true. If I'm a bricks and mortar retailer, and I sell a piece of hardware, and say "Thanks for shopping with us", nobody can later refer to that "Thankyou", and see whether I thanked the buyer. When he comes back to complain, I get the chance to listen to his complaint, and fix it. If I do well, he'll actually be more loyal to me than if he had no complaint, and will tell his friends. Again, there will be no record sitting out there that he complained, but there WILL be the word going round that I looked after my customer really well. So goes it for the bricks and mortar retailer.

For the online seller, they sell a product in good faith, leave positive feedback, and the next thing they hear is a negative feedback, which is there for all potential customers to read, and can't be removed, saying "Product broke - it's rubbish. This guy is a thief - don't deal with him". Now, I might know very well that had the customer emailed me, I would either have replaced the product, or I would've refunded his money, and he would have been much happier, but he didn't do that. The only thing in my favour is that if I haven't posted feedback yet, he might wait til he's talked to me before giving me negative feedback, because he fears I'll retaliate. It's a bad system, but there are so many dumb buyers out there that for sellers, there's really no other option.

Stacey

Yes, it can be removed.

So, penalize us all for the few idiots.? It's this kind of thinking that makes the world so cool!

Bicure

SammyBoy has said it best, although I know there will always be a minority of buyers who'll accuse cautious sellers of "feedback extortion."

I feel that (ideally), the feedback system should ALWAYS have been constructed this way.

But I know many wonderful sellers who have been deliberately targetted for harassment & negative feedback by individuals with multiple shill accounts (one famous shill maintains over ONE HUNDRED accounts!) designed SOLELY for this purpose.

They harass a seller, never pay, leave a negative.

The seller blocks them as bidders, but they just attack under a new ID.

Again & again.

eBay once had auction options that protected sellers from these disturbed individuals, but these have been gone for some time.

And with this new (theoretically good) feedback policy, sellers are even more vulnerable to these psycho-buyers.

While targetted sellers can often get such feedback removed, the time & energy lost - and the damage done - is profound.

Stacey, if you'd experienced this, you'd understand why your "feedback extortion" stance is an incomplete view.

Sammyboy

The feedback form specifically says that it can't be removed. I realise that in reality, it can be, but this can only happen after much discussion; how often will you get that from someone that couldn't drop you an email asking for redress? I don't leave feedback til the buyer does because for me, that's when the sale is closed. He's got the goods in hand, he's happy, I'm happy. If he's not happy, I want the chance to fix things for him, and we can do feedback afterwards.

USAZorro

I concur with Sam. I haven't sold many things on eBay, but I've bent over backwards to be prompt in shipping and to communicate well, and generally making sure the buyer is satisfied. It is quite frustrating to leave a buyer positive feedback - knowing they are satisfied based on e-mails - and have them leave no feedback. Feedback is about the only way a potential buyer can judge you as a seller, so taking reasonable measures to encourage a buyer to leave you feedback seems prudent.

Stacey

Again... You have jerks in all aspects of life. If one is targeted by such a buyer, then get a new username yourself to sell under if you must.

Here is our feedback. Look at it closely, tell me just how badly we've been hammered by jerk buyers. We left feedback the same day the item was shipped, and shipped the day after receiving payment.

99% of the time customer attitude is directly related to that of the seller.

You, nor anyone else will convince me otherwise

We had some deals go all to hell, in many different ways. It's all in the manner of how you deal with the problem and work towards an amicable solution. If you piss people off, be prepared for repercussions

Stacey

Apples and oranges. Retaliatory negs =/= no feedback. No feedback is just plain lazy ignorant.

wrk101

On shipping, at times, I have charged a high shipping charge, stated right up front, and then posted the item at one cent. I figure people can do math, and of course, I save eBay fees. Stated this way, I have no problem with relatively high shipping charges. I have also sold items (rarely) with free shipping.

I agree, the feedback retaliation is awful. So I am hesitant to leave negative feedback as a buyer, and I am hesitant to leave positive as a seller before receiving the same. To me, the fair way is if you are unhappy with an item, email first, let the seller take care of it. And if they do not, then go ahead and flame them.

wrk101

A couple of weeks ago I damn near gave negative feedback on a repair stand I bought. It came poorly packed, in a consumer box (not a shipping box). This consumer box was ripped, and parts were missing. Instead of flaming the guy, I sent them an email and they promptly sent me a brand new stand, no charge. So I gave them positive feedback, based on taking care of a problem, no questions asked.

As someone who owns a little ebay stock, they need to start fixing these problems, as their growth is gone. Hopefully someone in ebay will start reading this stuff and implement changes. This stock has been dead money for several years.

I still use ebay, but Craigs List has taken a piece of my buying and selling.

Rabid Koala

I am one of those evil sellers that will leave a positive only after the period of time I have allowed for returns has passed, or I have received a positive from the buyer. I do send a note that their item has been shipped and would they please let me know that it has arrived safely by leaving a positive.

My disputes have been minimal, mostly on stuff I bought but did not receive. I did sell some hubs to a guy who left me a positive, then he writes and says they were French threaded. I could have told him to go pound sand, as he had already left me a positive, but I made him a refund offer that he felt was more than fair. I do get really annoyed when I go out of my way to describe accurately and ship quickly, only to be ignored at feedback time.

I have only left one negative. That was Banana Brain who ignored about 5 emails and did not respond to me until I opened a dispute with ebay.

Bicure

Sammy, Zorro, Wrk, Koala - agreed!

sonatageek

That was what I was thinking. How does this make this a better place to do business? I have always felt that the negative feedback was the MOST useful part of the feedback system.

nowheels

I just had one of those sellers that do that......and it's normally over a small item.

Little Darwin

But, sellers can still receive negative feedback, just not buyers! This really satisfied my primary whining point that once a customer pays, they have fulfilled their part of the contract and should get feedback on that aspect. If the seller chooses to not leave feedback, that is OK since feedback is always voluntary.

I am sure that the mechanisms (besides feedback) will still be in place to deal with bidders that don't pay.

I think this relieves the buyer from the need to provide positive feedback out of fear of reprisal. The worst that can happen with the new policy is that they don't get feedback from the seller at all.

I think it will actually lead to more neutrals and negatives...

I do have some minimal concern from a selling standpoint, but since I don't send items until Paypal funds are received (I usually only accept Paypal) I am happy. I may end up getting a negative at some point, but even then I can't see that I would change my mind. As long as I get my money, and know that I will bend over backwards to keep a seller happy, I will know that any negatives are undeserved.

ronzorini

+1

Yea, it's interesting that they conveniently omitted this "detail" in their email announcement.

Old Fat Guy

The new fee structure has me upset. I was going to list a few bikes in the upcoming months, I think now I will aggressively sell on CL.

cyclotoine

Damn ScamBay! They are trying to cut in on craigslist with Kijiji, but I think they are too late. Craigslist it already too well established in the major cities. However, no so much in some. In Victoria UsedVictoria is was more popular.

redxj

Did you know Ebay owns 25% of Craigslist? They bought it back in 2004.

graywolf

Ths is all interesting. I think the new structure is going to hurt the little guy like me who only sells something now and then. Oh, lowered listing fees are a help, but...

There are all kinds of buyers and sellers. I have done two things that most posting here seem to complain about. One is that I no longer give buyer feedback until I know the customer is happy, I do not consider the transaction complete until that happens. The other is higher shipping charges. With the increases in listing fees the past couple of years it has gotten to where you can wind up paying $5 in fees on something you got 99 cents for, so I now charge actual shipping + my costs + eBay's listing fees. However, I guess most do not see that as unreasonable as I have had no complaints. It is not like selling something for $10 BIN and charging $100 shipping. I do make every effort as a seller to list things accurately and in detail. And I pack things very well.

As a buyer I have not been so lucky. I have had stuff nowhere near the condition listed and I always downgrade what the seller says by one step, even experts do not always agree on grading. Very little that I have bought has been properly packed and a couple of heavy items have arrived badly damaged because it it. And the shipping company is not going to reimburse if it was poorly packed. I have had sellers play the feedback blackmail game with me that so many are complaining about. I have had them take a month to get around to shipping the item. I do give negative feedback for "Item not as described" because with out accurate descriptions eBay is not a place to buy anything. However, I do not bid if someone says "Brand new, only used for a year". The get rich quick guys seem to be the worse sellers. Serious hobbyists the best.

OTOH, absolutely the worse buyers are the ones who post negative feedback with a comment like, "Seller refunded my money and shipping". I mean things happen, but what more could he do to make it right?

Dave Mayer

"Rabid Koala sez:

I am one of those evil sellers that will leave a positive only after the period of time I have allowed for returns has passed, or I have received a positive from the buyer. I do send a note that their item has been shipped and would they please let me know that it has arrived safely by leaving a positive."

I have bought a lot of bike stuff off of Ebay. I only buy from sellers who leave feedback right after being paid. As a buyer, as soon as I have paid, and the money is with the seller, I have discharged all of my obligations in the transaction. Sellers who wait for feedback before leaving theirs, or even worse beg for positives, get nothing from me, including any future business.

A seller who waits to give feedback is simply holding the threat of revenge feedback unjustly over the buyer.

The only positive about transacting with such a seller, or sellers who do not ship outside of the US, is that their auctions are typically heavily discounted relative to others.

Bicure

I've found that the finest, most honest sellers with the most superlative items refrain from leaving feedback until it's received.

Many also do not ship outside the US.

Basing one's purchases on a seller's feedback policy is like not opening a love letter because one doesn't like the choice of stamp.

Rabid Koala

I certainly haven't found that to be the case. So far, I have only shipped outside the US one time with an item of particular interest to Japanese collectors. I have done very well on my auctions, often exceeding my expectations. And I have 100% positive feedback.

Bicure

+1

(But to Germany, not Japan)

redxj

On, the overseas shipping I know for a fact I have got more on some of my auctions because of my willingness to ship internationally. One auction in particular the final bidders one was a US bidder, Uk bidder, and the eventual winner from Australia. Besides the occasional Canada my last few rounds of stuff had a couple of winners from Japan and Australia. I use to be a U.S. only seller, but I changed that policy last summer. With the $ sucking right now and the demand for nice vintage parts abroad I think most sellers are doing a disservice to themselves (and their wallets/paypal account) by not doing international shipping. It is a little more of a hassle, but I will go through it for the extra money I have received on some of my auctions.