Udh insight
#26
Clark W. Griswold
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Whoosh! If your job is fixing bikes, you are even less of an example of the typical bike rider.
Replacing hangers at your job is no indication of how frequent people need to have hangers replaced.
Again, it seems very likely that only a small fraction of riders ever need to replace hangers. It would be a waste to give extra hangers out to everybody.
Replacing hangers at your job is no indication of how frequent people need to have hangers replaced.
Again, it seems very likely that only a small fraction of riders ever need to replace hangers. It would be a waste to give extra hangers out to everybody.
You clearly don't know in your single riding experience but it's cool. Some people know certain things and others know other things.
#29
Clark W. Griswold
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#30
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Thread Starter
Oh well
Apparently the supposed benefit to udh is less that it is one more type of hanger, with its own benefits and shortcomings, and more that derailleurs can then be bolted directly to frame (not like Shimano’s “direct mount” but actually directly). Sram has a new (wildly expensive) system to make use of the possibility. Because it is fixed so exactly to one spot, they can do away with limit screws. It is popping up on some spiffy but impractical (for me) bike packing frames and I’m planning a trip that, naturally, “needs” n+ 1
#31
Senior Member
I'd think that supplying an extra hanger with every bike would mean 99.9% would never be needed and many of the ones that would be would be lost long before they were needed. Making the hanger an inexpensive part and making it quickly available when needed is what they should do.
Last edited by staehpj1; 11-28-23 at 05:30 AM.
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#32
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Two people had Ritchey Breakaway bikes, they packed their bikes themselves for the flight. One had a front derailleur that was out of adjustment but both of the Ritcheys had good shifting rear derailleurs. I was so impressed with the Break Away bikes, that I bought one a few months after the trip.
The ACA van had a bike stand, but their tools left a lot to be desired. I was using my tools for almost everything and I did not plan on that so did not have a lot of tools. I had to borrow a tool from someone because my spoke wrenches would not fit the nipples on one of the wheels that needed truing.
#33
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Yes, I never doubted that it happened. I was kind of shocked by the number though. In addition to my own bikes, I have maintained a bunch of bikes for friends and family over the years. Given that I have been a very active rider over the decades as have some of my family and that I am 72 that amounts to a lot of bikes and a lot of miles. I have never replaced a bent deraileur and have rarely seen even a bent one. The one experience with it was a guy I was travelling with on the Southern Tier who did bend one on a brand new bike and ultimately needed a replacement. He apparently bent it multiple times on the trip. He had all manner of problems with the bike including wheel problems. He had delays at multiple shops while he dealt with getting parts and arguing with the manufacturer over warranty issues. He had a wheel replacement and a hanger replecement covered under warranty, The mechanic at one shop blamed the Bob trailer stressing the rear triangle with all of the issues.
I'd think that supplying an extra hanger with every bike would mean 99.9% would never be needed and many of the ones that would be would be lost long before they were needed. Making the hanger an inexpensive part and making it quickly available when needed is what they should do.
I'd think that supplying an extra hanger with every bike would mean 99.9% would never be needed and many of the ones that would be would be lost long before they were needed. Making the hanger an inexpensive part and making it quickly available when needed is what they should do.
The first tour I did with ACA, one rider had a bad bottom bracket. Was a new bike, the manufacturer shipped a new bottom bracket to a bike shop on the route. And one rider had a front derailleur fail, it either had a spring break or the stop for the spring broke, I do not recall which. I used a piece of bunge cord to make it shift again, but the bunge was a lot weaker than the spring so downshifts were quite slow.
My point is that on one tour with a dozen bikes, would you expect both a bottom bracket and a front derailleur to break? Unlikely things happen. But one out of six bikes having a serious failure is unusual.
I advised the owner of the broken front derailleur to replace it at a bike shop in Waterton, but he kept using it until he got home. I did not think that the bunge cord would last as long as it did, I had to stretch it pretty tight to make it work.
#34
Senior Member
I was wondering how the bends occured, but that makes sense. OTOH, that kind of damage really should be pretty rare with care in packing. A carefully packed bike is fairly hard to bend the hanger on without destroying the box.
#35
Mad bike riding scientist
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My cynical take on the UDH is that 12=speed derailleurs (and their conventional hangers) are too fragile, so the "industry" (SRAM) unilaterally decided on a bandaid fix, rather than backtrack to more sensible, robust 11 or 10 speed gearing.
Seeing as 11-speed gearing on a touring bike is considered by most to be too fragile and radically innovative, I think it is safe to say you won't see UDH on touring frames until 12-speed becomes the norm, which means not in our lifetimes.
Seeing as 11-speed gearing on a touring bike is considered by most to be too fragile and radically innovative, I think it is safe to say you won't see UDH on touring frames until 12-speed becomes the norm, which means not in our lifetimes.
SRAM offered up the idea as a free open technology without licensing which is good on them. They did have a bit of an ulterior motive in that they then designed a derailer that essentially doesn’t need a hanger but conveniently fits on bikes that are built for the UDH. By all reports I’ve read, the new derailer is a marvel in that it is far less delicate and shifts under load better, even to the point of shifting best under load.
My only problem with them is that they come on bikes that I don’t want to own with gearing I don’t want. Modern “touring bikes” are harkening back to the bad old days of slapping rack mounts on what is essentially a race bike and telling people to go tour on it. Been there, done that, don’t wanna go back.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#36
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DeFAILeurs still in 2024?? LOL hahahahahaha
Last weecI saw videos of a young Dutch guy doing a world tour, now in Pakistan. He now has a 2 spoke chunk of flange broke loose. LOL.
Somehow he still rode it 500 miles to Lahore. But has found NO new matching hub. So much for the fixable anywhere nonsense.
On top of that he hadn't lubed his pedals at all and so they were seizing and finally crapped out.
The locals installed new pedals but they cross threaded it I think. Episode preview showed them trying to rethread. LOL.
Reminds me of LOST in SPACE. LOL. DANGER Will Robinson.
Last weecI saw videos of a young Dutch guy doing a world tour, now in Pakistan. He now has a 2 spoke chunk of flange broke loose. LOL.
Somehow he still rode it 500 miles to Lahore. But has found NO new matching hub. So much for the fixable anywhere nonsense.
On top of that he hadn't lubed his pedals at all and so they were seizing and finally crapped out.
The locals installed new pedals but they cross threaded it I think. Episode preview showed them trying to rethread. LOL.
Reminds me of LOST in SPACE. LOL. DANGER Will Robinson.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#37
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I worked in a bike shop during the past millenium, had no clue how bikes are packed by manufacturers these days. That is until 2018 when I opened up my new road bike box, a Ritchey Break Away badged as a Raleigh. Bought it at Amazon so I took it out of the box, not a bike shop mechanic at a shop.
Rear derailleur was attached to frame (steel, no separate hanger). Chain was on biggest sprocket so the derailleur did not stick out more than it needed to. A plastic spacer was attached to the skewer to hold the side of the box away from the derailleur. That spacer made a lot of sense. I can see why derailleur was attached to the frame, everything was in perfect adjustment at the factory and was still in adjustment when I put it all together. (Front derailleur was close but needed a tweak to adjustment.) If derailleur was not attached, it might need an adjustment on assembly, even if it had been adjusted before.
#38
Sunshine
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#39
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#40
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The universal derailer hanger is actually pretty smart....SRAM offered up the idea as a free open technology without licensing which is good on them. They did have a bit of an ulterior motive in that they then designed a derailer that essentially doesn’t need a hanger but conveniently fits on bikes that are built for the UDH. By all reports I’ve read, the new derailer is a marvel in that it is far less delicate and shifts under load better, even to the point of shifting best under load.
#41
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"wants drivetrain to be future proof"
Sturmey-Archer AW. Remains in production after 87 years. Rebuilt my WWII-era AW with factory-new parts a few years back.
Sturmey-Archer AW. Remains in production after 87 years. Rebuilt my WWII-era AW with factory-new parts a few years back.
#42
Senior Member
I've personally never wrecked a rear derailleur but have broken two front derailleurs, both 11-speed, one from Shimano and one from Sram.
As far as UDH goes, there's no reason for touring bikes to adopt it. But there's really no downside to having it either. It'll eventually make it to road and gravel frames because Sram already has spec sheets for a drop bar version of their Transmission.
#43
ignominious poltroon
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We've probably just had bad luck with them. The death toll includes two GX Eagles, one XT and one SLX, all 12-speed. I probably have about 6 11-speed derailleurs and a few 10 and 9 speed ones on bikes, in some cases for more than a decade. The worst thing to happen to any of those is needing to replace the pulleys on a 9 year old Di2 Ultegra rear derailleur.
(As for the initial comment, I was half asleep. What I meant was that the direct-mount Transmission 12-speed derailleur (which uses a UDH compatible mount, from what I understand), I think is a response ("band-aid") to the fragility of 12-speed drivetrains.)
(As for the initial comment, I was half asleep. What I meant was that the direct-mount Transmission 12-speed derailleur (which uses a UDH compatible mount, from what I understand), I think is a response ("band-aid") to the fragility of 12-speed drivetrains.)
#44
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I have not damaged a rear derailleur on a bike, but I did buy a used rear XT at a bike swap that I did not realize was damaged. Put it on a bike for a long ride. Shifting was not quite right. Figured out that someone had bent the cage. With a big vice and some other big tools, got it aligned right. But it was pretty clear that someone must have hit something pretty hard to do that.
#45
Senior Member
As far as UDH goes, there's no reason for touring bikes to adopt it. But there's really no downside to having it either. It'll eventually make it to road and gravel frames because Sram already has spec sheets for a drop bar version of their Transmission.
#46
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So here's my update on the world traveler guy, his YT is > The Sunday Ride.
His bike is a Cube something. It has thru axle hubs of course. He was down 5 spokes before he got a new wheel. All they had was a 20H race wheel. LOL.
A machinist did rethread his left pedal ok. Haven't seen his latest videos in India.
And then 3 buddies joined him for 2 weeks. One of them got his mini velo hit by a car. He was not hurt but the frame snapped both tubes at the head tube. LOL. Got welded and on their way.
Yesterday I found a couple more deFaileur guys. Both had heavy rear loads.
One was a new tourer 55+ from Sacramento doing the Pac NW. He broke 1 or 2 spokes three times, about $65. Still a POS budget bike.
The other was two 30s inexperienced guys doing Vietnam. They bought likely 650B bikes for $500 in Hanoi. They started the hard way to the mountains from Hanoi, then went to the beaches, but made it most of the way I think and finished in Saigon.
1,931 km > 6 flats, 14 broken spokes, 2 broken racks and 1 new tire. LOL. They still had lots of fun and clowning around.
His bike is a Cube something. It has thru axle hubs of course. He was down 5 spokes before he got a new wheel. All they had was a 20H race wheel. LOL.
A machinist did rethread his left pedal ok. Haven't seen his latest videos in India.
And then 3 buddies joined him for 2 weeks. One of them got his mini velo hit by a car. He was not hurt but the frame snapped both tubes at the head tube. LOL. Got welded and on their way.
Yesterday I found a couple more deFaileur guys. Both had heavy rear loads.
One was a new tourer 55+ from Sacramento doing the Pac NW. He broke 1 or 2 spokes three times, about $65. Still a POS budget bike.
The other was two 30s inexperienced guys doing Vietnam. They bought likely 650B bikes for $500 in Hanoi. They started the hard way to the mountains from Hanoi, then went to the beaches, but made it most of the way I think and finished in Saigon.
1,931 km > 6 flats, 14 broken spokes, 2 broken racks and 1 new tire. LOL. They still had lots of fun and clowning around.
Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 12-12-23 at 04:39 PM.
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