Nate552

Obviously, whoever I remind you of is a good looking fellow.

Racer Ex 

No.

A poll would provide you a better answer.

We have no idea what your aerobic potential is, but obviously you'd need to improve a fair bit to reach 25 MPH. Goals don't have to be realistic to be effective motivators.

Capacity08

New guy here, but long time forumer. I know thread jacking is frowned upon, but I feel like this would fit in fairly well here, and I don't want to flood the boards with another TT thread.

I'm going to be doing a 13 mile, non-aero equipment TT. Its mostly flat, with a hill towards the middle. I don't race, this will be my first race season, but I am a collegiate track athlete @ UW Stout.

My question is what can I do to be aero without violating the non-aero rules? I'm willing to do some taping and what not, and even shave the legs (I'm sure I'll catch hell for that one) I want to do everything I can...

Also, as far as rider position goes, is time best spent in the drops? I can ride the drops comfortably without a problem, but I've also seen some form in the pros where they rest their forearm/wrists on the bar tops and get into an aero tuck on their roadbike...but without aero bars. I can do this comfortably as well. Which is more aerodynamically efficient?

Anyways, sorry I jacked your thread rotti, but I think any info provided could be beneficial to the both of us. If not, I'll just quietly continue milling around the forums...

Thanks guys

Monkeyclaw

I'm with everyone else, ride what you can and enjoy the experience. If you're comfortable, you can ride in the aero tuck with your forearms on the bars. Keep in mind it's a precarious position. You're much safer in the drops. Another option is one hand in the drops or on the hoods, and the other hand by the stem tucked in. I find the latter to be a good compromise when I'm pulling the group into a good wind or bombing down a hill.

Shaving your legs won't make you any faster (I guess this depends on how much hair you have...) but it will gain you the respect of a bunch of men who wear spandex and shave their legs too. Bike drag and body drag are the two biggest factors, with body being the biggest. Slamming the front and bringing your seat forward (with the requisite raising of the saddle as you move it forward) will help tremendously (this keeps you hip angle open), but at some point you start to lose power. Remember, you're going to be in this position for about an hour so you need to be comfortable. Also, narrowing your shoulders and 'turtling' your head can help a good deal. All of this is free speed, but you'll need to practice the position. Taping the helmet was also mentioned, which can help.

You may be able to use deep-section rims, at least 40-45mm. If you have the option, find out if they are legal.

I'm not the most experienced racer (lowly cat 5), but I do a lot of triathlons and have several TT's under my belt. When I started tris, I used a road bike with clip-ons and competed pretty well in this set-up. I've since moved on to the TT equipment some of the others are making fun of...

Good luck! Remember to have fun most of all, and if you don't feel like puking at the end you didn't have enough fun.

kensuf

Saddle came up and forward, and I slammed the stem. I also rode that position 2-3x a week for a month before the event.

waterrockets 

It depends on how "non-aero" the rules are. Skinsuit if you can. If not, nice tight jersey that you can feel squeezing you if you take a deep breath. Same with the helmet -- as aero as they'll allow.

Forearms on the bar tops may be the most aero position (called "IAB" around here: Invisible Aero Bars). I'm actually slightly better off if I'm way deep in my drops, but that not as comfortable as IAB for me.

You need to test what's best for position. Do forum search for Racer Ex's "terminal velocity" tests, assuming you don't have access to a wind tunnel.

rotti

does a longer stem automatically put you in a more aero position? I have a Madone 4.5 and it doesn't come with an aggressive race set-up. The stem is very short compared to my other road bike.

kensuf

Is this a collegiate race with the new "no aero" rule? You'll probably only be able to get away with a skinsuit, shoe covers, and invisible aero bars. You *might* be able to get away with taping the vents of your helmet, but I'm pretty sure you're not going to be allowed to use a true TT helmet.

Riding the drops is more aero than being on top of the hoods, but your frontal area will still be larger than they will in the "IAB". This guy apparently knows a thing or two about time trialing, and he's doing a pretty good job of showing you what the IAB should look like:



Best of luck to you.

mattm

Forget about it, TTs are lame anyway. Even worse, they are a waste of time for cat 4/5's since you can never get points from them..

Btw, welcome back rkwaki!

rkwaki

Thank you sir, glad to see you still get in 196 hours of training a week

Hey who is that guy in the red jersey?

Sorry had to edit. Regarding TT in the lower cats I think it is important from a developmental standpoint. It is a great opportunity to show your weaknesses or holes in your training/diet/regiment as it is truly the race of truth. Little hiding, luck, surprises. Matt you are right that you don't get points for them but the 'developmental' points you gain are extremely valuable. It can often build confidence and show you are stronger than you think.

waterrockets 

No, if it messes up your fit, it could mess up your aerodynamics too. Lowering your shoulders almost always cuts drag, as does narrowing your arms.

My deep-drop position is lower drag than my IAB position because it's about 3" lower, which makes up for the increased width.

rotti

Makes sense thanks. I have one spacer left under my stem. I was told to keep at least one spacer under the stem. Is this true or do people drop the stem all the way down? Thanks a lot everyone, I've learned a lot from this thread.

waterrockets 

Different manufacturers have different instructions for the mechanics. There is a school of thought that the stress at the end of the stem clamp isn't good to coincide with the top bearing of the headset. Two stresses focused on the same circumferential line there.

That said, lots of people have the stem all the way down. You could also get a shorter spacer.

veloboy971

At least last year you could use skinsuit, wheels up to 808's I believe, and aerohelmets, just no aerobars for collegiate.

Racer Ex 

You know how they call the TT the "Race of Truth"?

Well:

Hida Yanra

that's my plan for this coming season.

This was really the case for me last year. I didn't have any winter base, and thought I was made out of 100% suck for the first 10 races of the year - then did a TT in a SR and went really fast (comparatively).
It gave me the encouragement to keep going the rest of the year, and helped me see that the holes in my fitness weren't comprehensive - just "comprehensively everything beyond 48 miles"

I didn't train hardly at all for TTs last year, even though I thought was going to. Just 2x20s on the road bike and 4x5s... just that base was enough to really kill some TTs last year.

veloboy971

Well if you don't count that as TT training I guess I don't ever train for TT's

Quel

So in the interest of keeping costs down for the poor college kids, $150 clip on aerobars were outlawed, but $2500 808s are just dandy.

valygrl

As a beginning racer planning to do a couple TT's next year on a road bike, I'm following along here.... Wondering if anyone has any advice on how to pick clip-on aerobars for my road bike and how to adjust the bike position, or should I just start down the trial and error path? BTW - I'm female and very short so I imagine there's a size component.

thanks

waterrockets 

Buy used bars so you can re-sell them at no loss if you're wrong.

One basic fit element I use is that my hip angle in the road position is a good guideline for the TT position. This means that when I rotate my torso down into the bars, in order to maintain that angle, I need to rotate my legs back (feet back). To do this on a bike, you move the saddle forward.

My road-bike TT position used a Profile FastForward seatpost, so I just kept a saddle on that guy with tape so I knew where to leave it. For a TT, I'd bolt on my TT bars, then just swap seatposts real fast.

There are a lot of TT position threads, so spend some time searching (probably easiest through Google than BF search -- just search for something like "site:www.bikeforums.net TT position" This will lead to an archived version of the given thread, but you can always go to the original with a link just above the thread.

echappist

yep.

and to boot, cheap $600 Neuvation carbon wheels are also outlawed for some reason. At least aero helmets give you more bang for the buck than wheels...
https://www.youtube.com/user/JohnCobbbikeguy#p/u

Hida Yanra

eh? link?

echappist

an email from the coach last year:

Quel

Three letters: UCI. If it's not a "conventional" wheel (low profile, aluminum, >16 spokes), it needs to be tested. Though this is for mass starts, so you should still be able to use them for a TT.

https://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/ge...kyNTc&LangId=1

Hida Yanra

yeah, I know, - but since when did that start being enforced at USAC races?
That would put folks like P out of business were it to become widespread.

should I also worry that neither my spooky nor my raleigh are uci legal?