Homebrew01

Watch some pro racing clips to see how much bend they have in the knee at the bottom of the stroke.

teamtrinity

I'm not so sure about this. I think you probably want at least a 15 degree bend. Lots of articles cite a 25-30 degree bend being optimal.

Bob Dopolina 

^^^ the OP is talking about 200 watts. Maxing out is not an issue.

THSdrummer

Run times: 16:08 5k, 9:17 3k, 27:09 8K (Cross Country) - I'm a collegiate runner (just glad I can run with this team).

Cycling has slowly been taking over my training, and it has negatively affected everything. When I hop on the bike, I push to hard, and it gives me little time to recover between running and cycling (I have two tris coming up this summer as well). I think you are probably doing to much to soon. At that point, you either need to tone down the running or the cycling. For me, I've had to cut off of riding until I can get my legs back under me. My outdoor track season may be wrecked (missed indoor due to injury), if so, I'll be back on the bike and care less about running.

My cadence is also near 95. When I hop on the bike lately I've been riding with a metronome (on the trainer) clicking at 100, and I do my best to hold 100 or faster. It forces me to spin easier and just focus on the form and not ripping up my muscles in the big gears. A trainer I borrowed from a friend gave me some unrealistic expectations though. It was so easy (old magnetic style) I could ride in the hardest setting and still be in the big ring and high gear and spin fine. I can't do that outside or on my new Fluid2 trainer.

EDIT: BTW, nice half and full marathon times. I don't think I can ever go that long. I've only done 4-5 13 milers and 1 14 miler. Especially if I was alone, I'd be toast. I'd like to break 1:20 in the half.

hamster

+1

Most people would love to have this problem. Legs are much easier to develop than the aerobic engine. Legs are the same, but the load is subtly different and that's enough to overload the muscles.

I would suggest limiting cycling workouts to 2-3/week and increasing protein in the diet.

abstractform20

wrong.

abstractform20

as Bobby D (can i call you that, bdop? think of it...Bobby D wearing a cycling vest with flames on it) said,
make sure you are fit to the bike. this includes shoes and cleat position.

also, make sure you give yourself recovery time...probably wouldnt hurt to do some squats (barbell, breaking paralell or its not a squat) once a week or so.

Ferrous Bueller

Without knowing what the OP's diet is now, this could be bad advice. It's possible to get too much. Many do.

Hiro11

I can empathize. I run (and swim) all winter as riding is tricky in the winter around here. I get in pretty good shape running, cruising at 6:45/mile by spring. Getting back on the bike this time of year, my lungs and heart will be barely be working and my quads will just melt on the first few rides. It's frustrating. I'd say it takes me ~12 good, fast 30-40 mile rides to be back in reasonable cycling shape where I can start taking pulls etc. Those first few rides are really strange: I'm not really getting a good workout, but I can barely climb stairs afterwards.

Then again, in early winter when it's time to start running again, that first run SUCKS! For me, the transition back to running is probably harder.

AngrySaki

To put things in a different perspective, it took me over a year to adapt to the change from riding a road bicycle to riding a recumbent. ie. it took a year for my legs to not be the limiter while riding a recumbent, and going from a road bike to a recumbent is mostly just a change in hip angle, so muscles really can be a limiter.

GregTR

Thanks everyone for the great and thorough answers! As much as I hate to accept it there is no shortcut to fast riding. You just have to put the miles in. I guess it's not any different than running. Specificity is the name of the game. The only thing I have to figure out is what I really want to do: Chase PRs in running, try to be KOM for my area or just become a more well rounded athlete and do triathlons. I'm not exactly young any more, out of the open class for Boston for the first time this year and only 4 years away from being a masters runner. I enjoy riding to work and I feel like you can do a lot more riding than running without getting too beat up. Hopefully I can find a nice balance. I was fully aware that my running would have to suffer if I decided to ride more but I was more curious about how long it would take to get "good" at riding. It seems like 2-3 years is a sound number.

My diet is fine, I used to be a sedentary couch potato weighing 240+ lbs back in 2009. I'm a long way away from that so I'm on top of my diet now.

Thanks! With your 5K time you should be looking at closer to sub-1:15 on the half. Halfs are all about LT runs so you have to do a ton of 12-14 milers with 6-7 miles at LT. For marathoning it's just the sheer amount of training volume that you need, some of it at a pretty good clip. A lot of runners concentrate on the 20 mile long runs but it's the 14-15 mile mid-week runs that make it or break it. I usually run 3 14+ mile runs every week and I try to incorporate marathon pace or LT in at least one of them. My hardest workout before my last marathon was 20 miles with 12 at marathon pace. Marathons are weird in a sense that nobody can prepare you for them, you have to experience it for yourself. Best of luck if you ever decide to run one.

hamster

When it comes to protein, it's very hard to get too much. There's a theoretical possibility of overloading your kidneys if protein is >50% of your caloric intake, but that's very far from typical intake levels.

Unless the OP is heavily supplemented to begin with, 30 g of whey after the ride will almost certainly do no harm and will be likely to benefit.

Ferrous Bueller

Now I agree.

GregTR

My protein level is not at 30%. It's more like 1.3 g/kg. I'm a carb junkie.

Ferrous Bueller

Seems like you're doing it right.

rkwaki

Not sure why I am here but for those who know I have two loves, cycling and bodybuilding.
My protein intake varies from 1:1 (g/pound) to 2.5:1. At a current bodyweight of 241 pounds that's a lot of protein. I also drink ~2 gallons of water a day.

Tough to overload...

hamster

At 2200 cal/day and a weight of 70 kg, 30% is 2.4 g/kg. That's fairly typical for athletes engaged in strength training and there's no evidence that these levels are harmful.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10722779 "It appears that protein intake under 2.8 g/kg does not impair renal function in well-trained athletes."

Ferrous Bueller

Great. I think everyone here has already agreed that 30% is a reasonable upper limit.

jsutkeepspining

if i rmemeber correctly i rode at 220 watts for 4 hours the other day as my easy get back into cycling shape day...

jsutkeepspining

also listen to rkwaki, he knows cycling pretty well (i.e. better than eveyrone else here). He might be dumb as a rock in regular people stuff, but in cycling and bodybuilding he's rather learned

GrayJay

As a newbie cyclist, you urgently need to familiarize yourself with the Velomanati rules, particulay rule #5 in the case of your legs hurting!
https://www.velominati.com/the-rules/

bikerjp

I'm a local elite cyclist (local being defined as a 20ft radius around my house) and whenever I run I ask myself the same question. Decided it's best to stick to cycling.

longbeachgary

Welcome
Seems like you should be giving us advice rather than the other way around.

THSdrummer

That's precisely why I don't ever eye to run one. I don't want to complete one for the sake of "completion" either. If I get into the marathon, it will be 100% for a Boston qualifier and to possibly pave the way for an Ironman.

I rely pretty heavily on my teammates, so perhaps that is why I may never get into the half and full marathons. If my college team decided to switch to road racing (running) and do 10ks/Halfs, I would 100% support it. Other than indoor track, road racing in summer is my favorite season, unfortunately, I'm always in the building phase then and don't want to let to much gas go before the season.

Thanks for the help! I'm sure I'll find myself toeing a half or full marathon line at some point.

EDIT: I'm also a carb junkie. I always think about fueling the next ride/run/swim. I need to pay more attention to my protein intake. I can say when I'm home I have a greek yogurt post-workout (15 g of protein). When I'm at school, I have a cottage cheese/mozzarella/spinach salad (~15 g of protein).

AdelaaR

Correct.
I had this same problem when I started running coming from cycling.
It took me at least a year now and it's still getting better.
Transition like that takes time ... no worries.