79pmooney

I have 5 bikes that stop really well with rim brakes. All the bikes are keepers. Three bikes are fix gears with good rear brakes (where discs would work very poorly if at all - Edit: you could make a disc bike with a fix gear work but the easy ability to change cogs and gear ratios wouldn't happen). Front wheels are interchangeable between all. I have The geared bikes have at least two rear wheels each (so I can have different gears and tires mounted). That's a lot to replace if I decided to to discs.

I have zero desire to go to a whole new system that won't make me one second faster, just maybe more predictably slower.

Ben

unterhausen

Mandatory is not the right word, but rim brake bikes are definitely on the decline in all sectors. Probably until they get everyone converted to disc, and the marketers decide to go back to rim brakes because they are lighter.

pjthomas

FX 3 disc is 1.5 lbs. heavier than the rim FX 3.

79pmooney

Lighter, simpler and cheaper. Much lower tolerances. Bigger profit margin. The new big deal. Just watch. I'll give the disc love affair another 5 years. Yeah, they'll stick around. But calipers will come back. Just watch.

Ben

prj71

It's about stopping power and nothing to do with making you go faster.

prj71

Yup. But static weight is different than dynamic weight.

Easily offset with carbon bars, carbon seatpost and a lighter seat. Or even a lighter wheelset.

And if you think that 1.5 lb difference will make a difference in speed...it's the motor...not the bike.

DrIsotope

But disc brakes are faster. Braking is just negative acceleration, so you're negatively accelerating... faster.

I've never seen this as an issue of "converting." There are 4 bikes in my shop-- 2 disc brake and 2 rim brake. We somehow manage to survive.

79pmooney

Yup. Or you could just spend less money for the lighter rim brake bike and invest that difference on those light bars, seatpost and seat and have a bike 3 pounds lighter. And yes, it is still just the motor. But the placebo effect has been documented many times over. And 3 pound is a placebo I could live with.

But. as I said above, the marketers probably won't be on to this for about another 5 years.

Ben

pjthomas

The FX 3 disc costs $120 more and the offsets you suggest are not free. Also the non disk FX 3 can be lightened the same way also so it's still 1.5 lbs. That's 1.5 lbs you have to pull up a hill regardless of your motor. It's also another 1.5 lbs you have to lift onto a car rack or carry up stairs to an apartment. If you don't need the benefit why bother, especially if it's mechanical disc brakes that may not function better and was only added to check off a marketing bullet list item. That's whats nice about the FX3, you can choose, and as the orginal poster noted, that choice is starting to disappear.

puma1552

I'm happy with my rim brakes, but I bought my Colnago basically knowing it's sort of an antique already or a modern classic if you will, what with its rim brakes, dropouts, and max 25mm tire clearance (not to mention 5800 with the release of 7000 happening right now). I wanted a good, solid road bike. My hybrid has rim brakes (V-brakes, which are garbage) and drop-outs as well.

But let's be real, next time around for either bike it'll be discs and thru-axles, and I'm ok with that. I'm sure discs have their own adjustment/alignment problems, etc., but rim brakes have always sort of sucked to really dial in well, especially V-brakes.

sjanzeir

Look, gentlemen, the key issue here, at least for me, is to not complicate things. It's awesome to have the latest and greatest, but it's just as awesome to keep things simple, because simplicity really is at the heart of the joy of cycling. Having a need to stock up on application-specific brake pads when general-purpose brake blocks are available at the nearest shop for a fraction of the cost isn't exactly my idea of joy, and neither is having to "upgrade" a system that has specific requirements so as to have it accept more generally available components when there wasn't anything wrong with the older, tried-and-true system to begin with. And neither should I - or anyone, for that matter - feel the need to conform just because the Campagnolos, Shimanos, and SRAMs of the the world say we should.

sjanzeir

"Compulsory?"

Or they find a way to start pushing ceramic disks down our throats because, as you just said, they are lighter still! Then brake-by-wire will probably come along, and then self-uprighting, self-riding bicycles that don't need to be pedaled or steered by the rider...

sjanzeir

I.e. even more expenses to offset something that was forced on you in the first place! I'm sorry, but I find this whole proposition entirely ridiculous.

finch204

But did you look at that Kestrel flat bar road bike I was saying? Comes with full carbon frame, 105/Ultegra drivetrain and rim brakes? LOL I'm just kidding.

I have a flat bar Madone with Ultegra rim brakes and a Giant Roam with hydraulic disc brakes. I love the bite on the Ultegra rim brakes, but I also love the ease of use and modulation with the hydraulic disc brakes. Both have their pros and cons and both will work with bikes. Just get out and ride folks.

hokiefyd 

I think the very same argument was likely had regarding index shifting. Does your bike have index shifting? I bet it does, as do all of mine save for one.

Index shifting was initially met with significant resistance (and still is in some circles). It absolutely complicates things. Shimano shifters aren't compatible with SRAM derailers and SRAM shifters aren't compatible with Campy derailers and, what...Shimano has two different cable pull ratios and shifters for 10 speed? What? Index shifting can be tremendously complicated, and goes against the notion of Keeping It Simple. Who needs a ratcheting shifter? Real men shift with friction, right? Right?

Obviously, I say and ask some of that in jest. The primary difference between index shifting and disc brakes, as I see it, is time. We're only a few years into the widespread adoption of disc brakes on consumer level bikes. But index shifting has been in place on consumer level bikes since the late 1980s, about 30 years ago. Both index shifting and disc brakes complicate the bike, but they also offer benefits to most cyclists.

Obviously, everything is relative. Disc brakes are quickly becoming commonplace and they'll continue to increase in popularity and acceptance of general cyclists. One can "blame" any number of things: evil marketers, race fan boys, the "gotta have it" crowd. In the end, though, those who don't like them and never will are eventually going to have to accept the fact that they'll need to ride older bikes, or buy bikes that can be converted to rim brakes (if your bike has a brake bridge and a fork crown, you can use caliper rim brakes).

Just like those who still prefer to friction shift must do. THEY haven't been able to buy a new bike in decades!

DorkDisk

Road cycling is very traditionalist. I can see high end calipers being offered for way longer. Custom builders will always exist in this segment.

Look at mountain bikes. The writing was on the wall with AMP, Diacompe, and Hope in the early 90s. By mid 2000s Vs were relegated to low end bikes where they still remain. Even cantilevers have a niche market still. Suspension frame design and less traditional baggage made the transition rather effortless. There was a year or two of front disc/rear V but its all disc now.

Hybrids have even less tradition than MTBs and the novice buyers are more dazzled by shiny disc brakes than lighter v brakes, even if the cheap discs suck.

prj71

You're over thinking this. Disk brakes aren't complicated.

sjanzeir

Anything gets complicated as soon as it starts to need special tools and planning ahead. I'm not - or at least not trying to - overthink this. I'm merely pointing out the fact that I can no longer get what I want off the rack. If I want my next bike to have a metal frame and fork and rim brakes, my only options might well be to either go custom or buy used.

Which is to say that the cycling world - or, the bicycle-buying aspect of it, that is - has become all but unrecognizable to me. Marketers still succeed in pushing the "cool" factor of carbon fiber and disk brakes while manufacturers make a killing, only for it all to become obsolete a season or two later, and the sales cycle starts all over again. I'm seriously thinking about rebuilding my old gas pipe Raleigh to make it my daily rider again.

hokiefyd 

The sales cycle will repeat every year, but I see disc brakes as no different than index shifting. You just know that this was the END. OF. THE. WORLD. to some people. Manufacturers are taking away their friction shifters and using these silly clicky things. Now you can't just get a brake lever (thinking drop bar bikes, especially). You have to buy a 100 dollar integrated unit just to be able to shift gears.

That was 30 years ago. There are still some who prefer friction, but the technology has really matured and I think most riders have come to appreciate the benefits, and feel that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Disc brakes haven't been mainstream for 30 years. I wouldn't even say they've been mainstream for even 10 years. The technology, as good as it is today, is still pretty new, and standards are still sort of finding themselves (IS vs. post mount, 6 bolt vs. centerlock, etc). It'll continue to mature and more folks will continue to move over into the camp that believes the advantages of disc brakes outweigh the drawbacks.

I believe you're right, that you can't get exactly what you want off the rack anymore. That era is coming to an end. A guy who likes friction shifting hasn't been able to buy a rack bike for decades. Folks who prefer things that are out of the mainstream have always found ways to build what they want, and that's part of what makes cycling a cool hobby. There are a LOT of riders in the C&V forum (Classic & Vintage) who build their own gas pipe bikes with friction shifting and rim brakes. There's a TON of help out there on this.

One of my best riding bikes is a 1969 Peugeot. It doesn't have disc brakes (but I did put an index shifter on it). It's from a different era and that's a big part of what makes it enjoyable. My two daily riders are modern aluminum bikes (a hybrid and a mountain bike), but I'm firmly in the "steel is real" crowd, and two of my favorites in my collection are classic steel bikes. I love riding them.

sjanzeir

Exactly. Much of a hassle as it could be to not be able to buy why you want off the shelf, it is thought-provoking to try and find ways to be riding a bike that's to your liking. For me, the starting point is a metal frame, metal fork (whether they're steel or aluminum is secondary,) and rim brakes (regardless of type.) That's why, besides my aforementioned gas pipe 1991 Raleigh Flyer, I'm looking into the possibility of getting me an entry-level, Tourney-equipped Fuji Sportif that I can buy locally and upgrade it with better components later.

"Aluminum frame, aluminum fork, and rim brakes" is quickly becoming a nearly impossible combination these days. As many must've noticed, since about late 2016, every manufacturer have been converting their entire high(er)-end road and hybrid ranges to disk brakes and carbon forks. I bought my 7.3FX in early 2016 because it was the only one in the FX range to have had an alloy fork to match the aluminum frame; the 7.2> models had steel forks and the 7.4< models had carbon forks. When I sold the 7.3 in late 2017, Trek no longer even had an FX with an aluminum fork in the range; the FX 2 had a steel fork and the FX 3 came with carbon. Ordering an alloy fork to replace the carbon one on my 2014 7.6 was a bit of a hassle.

It was much easier to buy a bike 30 years ago. Back then, I don't remember anyone giving a **** whether you rode a Raleigh or a Peugeot or whether you ran Shimano or Weinmann. It used to be like "hey, you got your bike? Good. Let's haul ass." Now you got all the fanboys and the marketeers with the loud CG music and the 23-year-old mountain bikers looking at you sideways and talking down to you because you're old and fat. It didn't used to be like this. [soapbox mode off.]

desmodue

Rim brakes =

DorkDisk

So what else is new? Bicycles, being highly perfected evolve very slowly; unless a new disruptive genre like MTBing comes along. Disks are not new at all. They hit mainstream MTBs a loooong while ago and the writing was on the wall. You can still get cantilever pads though. Smooth post or threaded? Inserts or the whole block? Holders and inserts? red/salmon/black? long MTB ones or short road ones?

You can ignore the marketing kool aid and just enjoy whatever aspect of cycling you enjoy the most.