Shimano's next upgrade will be Dura-Ace 8000. 7900 was just a "holdover".
They're just waiting for Campy & SRAM to blow their loads first,
then, as usual, they'll introduce a simple clean system that will just
do what cyclists want and need from a groupset...perform flawlessly.

Electronic shifting?

Why?

I almost feel like it's a gimmick to distract us from what's coming down the pike.
Don't know about you guys, but when it comes to Shimano, my Spidersense is tingling!
Their XTR group is wicked smaaht. 7900 didn't improve as much as XTR did. 8000 is around the corner.



Shimano, listen...give us 7800 reliability & simplicity, 7900 tweeks and SRAM Red weight.
"F" the carbon on parts that should be all metal. AND chill with the price already!
Oh, and make it all easily tunable and maintainable with basic tools.

Meanwhile...a very "Ultegra SL" looking 105 crankset is on deck for 2011!
Nice! Actually, IMO, nicer than Dura Ace's crankset!



https://www.bikerumor.com/2010/11/10/...od/#more-24446

7900 or 5700?

Just a matter of time...16lb Di2 Mountain Bike

https://www.bikerumor.com/2010/11/12/...irwheel-bikes/

This needs some 'esplainin'.

Campagnolo is running at capacity and selling everything they can make. What's to blow?
Sram is eating into Shimano's OE and aftermarket sales at an alarming rate. What bad move could they possibley be planning next?

Clean? They were the last to get gear cables out of the way. They failed when they tried to add carbon to their lineup (and wisely went back to their strength - which is alloy) and the first iteration of 7900 was panned across the board. They have been floundering with their flagship product since Campagnolo went 11 spd.

What they have done with Ultegra and 105 is certainly a step in the right direction. Those groups look pretty nice and probably function very well. This is good news for Shimano fans.

If it's a gimmick it is a VERY expensive one!

As I said before, Shimano was backed into a corner and had to make a move. All they had ready was Di2 so that was the move. I'm sure it has been a huge loss for them and I'm equally sure they wish that they had had another option at the time, but they didn't.

Not to worry, it is still Shimano's game to loose but other players are entering the market and everyone is out for a piece of their pie. The next few product cycles should be interesting.

To all interested:

I did a bit of quick checking around with those who should know and no-one has seen or heard of electronic shifting at the Ultegra level. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist on a shelf or hasn't already been designed it just means we probably won't see it for 2011.

Rumor?... this stuff has been out for a long time.

I had my bike upgraded with the 5700 shifters and RD back in September, think they had been out since around June/July, both marked down 20% off MSRP... which at the time I thought strange considering it was new... but didn't complain.

The hidden cables are nice... love the new hood shapes, bulge in the middle fits hand really nice. I've not had even a hint of numbness like usual on long 60-120mile rides.

But overall not impressed. The shifting may actually be worse than my old beat up Tiagra, not as crisp and direct feeling. And underneath the shifter is all this metal stuff, when I'm up off the saddle pulling up on the bars... my fingers are looped around bare metal moving bits instead of rubber. Not real pleased. Also seems strange that it's all more exposed to the elements.

Thanks Bob. It's just a rumor via the local Shimano rep, but we'll see what happens.

I'm looking forward to a shifting system where the rider has to tie a string to each finger (10 speed).

This way, you could shift with a simple flick of the finger! Or while flipping someone the bird!

Ui2 vs mechanical 7900? Price wise? Performance-wise?

I like my 7800 and I would really like to continue to be able to replace parts easily.

If I need someone with an engineering degree to fix my bike, I would be pissed. This electronic stuff is great for advertising, but it sucks for amateur racing if that's all there's going to be. Stuff breaks all the time. I'd hate to have to get a new frame because I broke my RD in a crash and the servos stuck somewhere inside the frame, etc. I know that's a terrible example, but you get what I mean.

Well if that's the case the next place to unveil it will be at Taipei Bike Show in March (like Campagnolo did with 11 spd). The problem is that it doesn't fit the Shimano production schedule and it would pretty much be too late for 2011 model year.

There is Taichung Bike Week the first week of December. It is an old fashioned hotel type show that is focused on Product Managers and is strictly industry only. A lot of booking happens there. I will be there for 2 days. If nothing surfaces there then I would consider the rumour "BUSTED".

Did you read the articles? The 105 5700 crankset for '11 is supposedly slightly modified.
And, if it's the same design, that's the best angle of a 105 5700 crank I've ever seen,
because I've never seen it look "that" good.

"If you find the price a bit too high, you’ll be happy to find out that Shimano
is working on an Ultegra Di2 component group. It might come out this year."

https://range.wordpress.com/2010/03/0...ce-di2-review/

Isn't that a 5700 crankset in the picture?

That's the first time I've ever seen one with chainrings
that look nearly identical to my Ultegra SL rings.

Just read the article again...it's clear that this is an
improved 5700 for 2011 compared to the 2010 5700.

Wow. A 2011 105 crankset only weighs about 723g.
That means only 825 with an Ultegra or Dura Ace BB
(that only costs $10. more than a 105 BB).

That's pretty much what my Ultegra SL Crankset weighs with DA BB.
Pretty awesome I think for a basic group.

You weren't the only one to hear it. Guys at a LBS here in SoCal said the same. Seems it's been out there:
Slowtwitch
Weight Weenies
Nwesbikes

Still, it's just a rumor... for now.

Mr. Dopolina,
Is there not a touch of hyperbole in your assessment of Shimano's current market position and where, even, Di2 sits in the market? Lemme ask you this: do you view Campy 11 as an innovation? Might it be said that the improvement in their 11speed over 10 actually speaks to the substantial room for improvement there was in their 10 speed offering? Also, looking at the past 20 years where have most of the innovations in component group/drivetrain technology come from? Seems to me that Shimano has been at the top in terms of innovations due to superior engineering (ironic given that they can also be accused of being quite conservative in their approach similar to the Japanese auto makers). Last to the party with shifter cables routed under bar tape? Simple. Form follows function. Thus, a firm philosophy governing engineering (functional, durable) necessarily implies slowness to adopt new materials (carbon). Are Campy's carbon cranks better than Shimano's alloy ones? They certainly look beautiful and adhere to a decidedly Italian aesthetic in terms of design sensibility. Who would say they outperform them though?

I dunno. The talk of Shimano getting their butts kicked by SRAM while Di2 represents a limited response to Campy 11 appears overstated.

Seems that Bob was speaking more from a sales/market share point of view and not really weighing in on the value of the products.

Yep...Shimano is #1 for a reason.
I grew up on Shimano.


SRAM... (heehee)

Oh. It's on the internet so it must be true.

As opposed to "Oh. It's on the internet so it must not be true"?

Okay. The implication then is that SRAM and Campy are doing a better job at marketing their products? I am speaking to market share as well. I acknowledge Shimano's recent market share loss, though that's coupled with overall industry growth so there's actually room for a very healthy Shimano in spite of the increased competition. I looked at one of their 2010 quarterly reports and it showed an increase in profits over the same period 2009 by 13%. Also, Bob clearly has an insider's sense of trends, but I would like to see the substantial loss on Di2 that some claim supported by data. If anyone can afford to support a ultra high-end group like Di2 wouldn't it be Shimano? Might they have been conservative in their production runs so as not to have massive inventory sitting on shelves? Recouping R&D typically occurs over the long term. Just trying to get a better understanding of the bike component biz.

Correct.

I will not participate in a 'which is better' debate.

learnmedia, you might want to add to your argument that if Shimano seems slow to adapt it is not because of a lack of ability or ingenuity, it is because their product development cycle is longer than Campagnolo or, it seems, Sram. This is why I said that Ui2 may certainly already be cooked (certainly drawings exist - anyone check patents?) but what is at issue is whether or not it will be released for 2011.

As an aside, however, if we were to talk about the technical innovation of 11spd we would have to focus on the chain. According to the engineers at Campagnolo this was the biggest stumbling block and the key to the entire 11 spd drivetrain. No point here just something to consider; Not all innovations are readily apparent.

I am no longer in a position in the industry to know with any certainty what is or isn't being released for 2011 model year but with Eurobike and Interbike down , and no news, it only leaves 1 industry show and the Taipei bike show to drop the group for 2011. The industry show in 2 weeks seems the most likely of the two so if it doesn't happen there I doubt we'll see it in 2011.

Not my meaning.

Campagnolo is what it is. It pretty much sells itself. They are selling all they can make was my point. Their share of the OE market is smaaaall. In my view, they are an aftermarket manufacturer. That is certainly where the bulk of their sales are.

Sram is marketing well. They offer a good product, at prices competitive with Shimano and are active in the OE (and have been for some time). They are clearly growing and eating into Shimano business.

Just facts. My opinions here are limited.

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't actually looking to start a "which is better" debate either. More a "which company seems better positioned to continue to lead in the future" discussion. And whether producing an affordable, solid electronic shifting drivetrain will be a driving factor in which company happens to remain or become a market share and/or innovation leader.

I agree that 2011 seems waaay premature to see Ui2. I believe one of the rumor links I posted earlier mentions 2012, which seems more reasonable.