My neighbor found this bike at the dump. I'm thinking it's French, but there are no identifying marks of any kind. Shifters and derailleurs are Huret Allvit, the one remaining brake is Weinmann, no name on the cranks/BB. Distinctive frame features: seat stays are a single tube that wraps around the seat tube, and there's a grease fitting on the non-drive side of the BB. No serial number I've been able to find. So--what is it? Thanks to all...

If you don't want this thread to die. We'll need close ups of the BB lugs, for crown, drop-outs, components and especially the cranks STAT!

correct! It *could* be French (or another Continental) but seems more likely British given the one view of the wrap-around stays. A grease fitting on the BB shell points to an older frame ('50s, '60s at latest), but we need to see more! The cranks may not be marked, but somebody should recognize that style (not me, tho). I don't think the orange is original color/paint, I see a little blue in the chips.

Well..since you were all so nice to ask, here's what I've got right now--I'll take a few more tonight if necessary. I'm including shots of the derailleurs, as they're a bit different than my (admittedly decades old) recollection of Allvits. Also, FWIW, rear hub is Schwinn Approved made in France, front is an Italianate name I can't recall at the moment, made in US.

hmmm I haven't got a clue what it is but i would clean up the derailleurs and ebay 'em. They may be valuable but I don't know. Old huret fronts seem to be sought after. The frame construction seems decent quality so I think this is a bike worth overhauling and putting some nice vintage alloy components on. Though the drop-outs appear stamped, do they say anything on them?

Dropouts are indeed stamped, and there's no names anywhere except on the components already mentioned. I'll be overhauling the headset and the BB sometime in the coming week, so I'll see if any new clues surface. That Falcon/Merckx frame does look very similar, other than the chrome fork ends.

Took the crank arms off tonight and found that the BB cups are stamped TDC made in England. Additionally, the fork is indeed chrome under the hideous orange paint, and it looks like the lugs were black. Original frame color appears to have been royal blue. As you can see, the chrome is separating a bit on one of the fork tips--should I just epoxy it? Thanks to all the experts!

hmmm, I still don't have a good guess as to the make, but looks like a pretty nice older British frame, probably from the '60s. What size seatpost? That will help determine the tubing...also look for any faint stamping on the steering column when you remove the fork. I'd suspect that just the fork ends are chromed, a full-chrome fork would be out of place on a bike from this era...and be prepared for the chrome to be revealed to be bad when you strip the paint, given the rustiness of those Huret parts.

Fortunately, most of what looks like rust on the bike is actually just old greasy dirt acting as somewhat of a protective layer, which comes off pretty readily with mineral spirits. I'm actually kind of looking forward to overhauling the derailleurs--it's been 3 decades plus since I've rebuilt an Allvit. From what I can see so far, the chroming on the fork looks very similar to the one in the Falcon pics above. I'll take my electronic calipers home tonight and measure the seat tube inside diameter--I suspect the seatpost that came with the biek is not original. Along those lines, what kind of hubs/rims would be typical for a British bike of this era? The wheels are also suspect on this bike.

My guess would be that it is an older English frame and a tap test should tell you if the tubing is butted or single gauge.

My 54 and 55 Raleigh bikes have oil ports on the bb shells and if the bike was this old and English, it would have been fitted with 26 inch wheels... a newer bike (post '55) would have been fitted with 27's.

My Falcon San Remo has that seat stay wrap and similar style lugs though forged dropouts rather than stamped. I'm also in the camp of a 50s/60s British frame. How heavy is the frame and fork? Seatpost size will tell you a lot.

Neal

Looks like a Falcon...check out "Dale's late 1960's bike" and "Ted Williams' late 1960's bike" in the link for more pics...

The drop-outs on the bikes in that link all have forged drop outs (the ones that can be seen anyway). The OPs bike does not.

Not forged, but they look hand cut. And the workmanship is very nice, even where the dropouts join. I'd guess a 50's English bike (TDC is Cross, later Cross and Sons, I think. A good English brand). If you clean the freewheel, you'll probably see TDC as well. It looks amazingly original. 36/32 spokes front/rear?
what brand is the brake? the headset? the hubs?

The only remaining brake is the rear, a Weinmann center pull, Weinmann handle with red quick release button on the front. Rear hub says "Schwinn Approved, made in France". Front is a "Resilion, made in England", laced to a Dunlop lightweight steel rim (badly out of true, I might add). The freewheel is a Benelux Star, which requires a pin style tool for removal. Since the rear wheel is clearly non-original, and the freewheel pawls aren't clicking, I think I'm going to my local bike co-op to see if I get lucky in their wheel pile. Haven't pulled the headset, but if TDC made headsets I'll bet that's what it is. So far my guess on lineage based on what I've seen here and a good dose of ignorant supposition is that maybe this is an entry level Falcon, or some brand that Falcon built frames for. Onward bike detectives!

Could those be Cyclo dropouts? They look similar to the ones on my '59 Carlton.

That frame looks ideal for conversion to a three speed. It has no derailer hanger and you wouldn't have to file off those pesky shifter bosses like I did.

I'm no expert but this looks almost exactly like my 72 Raleigh frame, I have not seen my original components since 1984 but your lug work has very little difference from mine.

Early 60's Falcon Black Diamond frames had non-forged dropouts, no derailler hanger, and Reynolds 531 maintubes. I have one. The oilport in the BB does not look familiar however, and almost looks like a replacement perhaps? If the front wheel is 32h, the rear would have been 40, a common british setup. My 62 Black Diamond frame came with a lot of Milremo parts, including hubs, stem, and bars, but did have the Dunlop steel rims and huret components, with a Williams cottered crank and Atom freewheel. The front forks were half-chromed. Are there 2 holes lined up vertically where the headbadge would go? The Falcon headbadge is attached that way, via small rivets.

The front wheel is indeed a 32 spoke, and there are those 2 telltale rivet holes in the head tube, spacing appears to about right, judging from Falcon pics in this thread. Don't know how I'd determine the originality of the oil port--sure looks like it belongs though. Pretty sure it's not a 70's Raleigh--rebuilt a Super Course from that era a few months back and while the lugs are similar that's pretty much where the resemblance ends.

I see your point, plus I don't have an oil port on the BB. and the Raleigh badge uses three holes.

The oil port on my 62 Falcon does not stick up so tall, and works via a spring-loaded top filler, hard to explain, but basically there is a round hole with small flange, inside the hole there is a metal "cover" that is pushed down into the oil port when the oil can snout is pushed in, and then springs back into place when the oil can snout is removed. Different from some Raleigh versions (and others) I have seen with an oil port that has a "flip up" lid on it.

Haven't checked it closely, but the oil port on mine is a similar mechanism. No flip up cap, just what looks to be a spring loaded ball valve. I'll have a good look tonight.

Here is a "cheap" way to replace the headbadge until you can find a metal one!
https://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Falcon-H...QQcmdZViewItem

PM me if you're still looking for a good home for this bike. Looks like it would be a good project and fit.
Thanks.

Since doing a frame swap with Long deKlein, I am now the "custodian" (who owns whom with these bikes?) of this frame. I'm noodging the thread to add some info that others might find of mild interest:

Weight-wise, it's not a lightweight by 80s standards: bare frame except for pressed headset races weighs 2635 g, and fork in same condition weighs 966, putting it just over 3.6 Kg.
Seatpost hole measures 26.7; after I hone out some of the crust, I think that a 26.6 will fit -- it came with a 25.4 that was definitely too small. That makes the tubing 0.9 mm wall thickness, and judging by the frame weight, it's probably straight-gauge. Robert Broderick's gallery includes a 1950s Reynolds catalog, containing both butted and straight-gauge 531 tubing, and also an "A" line that is probably mild steel.

Geometry is fairly standard "relaxed-road": 72-degree seat tube, 43.5 cm chain stays, 63 cm seat tube C-T with 57 cm top tube C-C; that's good for me, a high-waisted guy.
BB is 68 mm wide English thread; cups marked TDC. The fixed cup came out most unwillingly, but a newer one spun in easily, so there may be corrosion on the fixed cup threads.
Brake clearance is typical of old 27" wheeled bikes set up for Weinmann 610 and 750 brakes: 368 mm from axle to brake hole on front, 375 rear. Fork steerer tube is 233 mm - 194 head tube height = 39 mm stack; good if a replacement is needed.

The original color of the bike looks like it was a medium gray-blue -- not as light as the "Azure blue" San Remos and other Falcons. Fork has chrome socks, and the crown also appears to be chromed, but nothing on the rear.

There are a few wear-and-tear issues: minor ding in top tube that body putty will fill easily, someone reefed down on the rear brake nut and squashed the bridge somewhat (not helped by that tube having a seam on the bottom). I'm wondering how much trouble that is to replace. Same story with the little chainstay bridge right behind the BB -- I don't know what kind of fixture might have been installed there that has flattened the bottom side of it. But I'm very far from complaining. I wanted this frame because it was obvious from the photos that it has the simple elegance of a workaday task done with care. The craftsmanship just radiates from it, even though the materials are not special.

As to the Falcon attribution, I think that's problematic. Coventry-Eagle became Falcon in 1970 as far as I can tell,, and I have a suspicion that this frame is older than that; mainly because of the oil port on the BB (though none on the head tube). I did find a Coventry-Eagle on the Internet that is the most like this frame of anything I've seen:


Posted here:
https://www.bikecult.com/works/archive/04bicycles/coventryeagleRF.html

The fork crown is flat, but the detailing of the lugs is not quite the same. Also, the other Coventry-Eagle bike I found on the Internet has a rather fancy headbadge, but with mounting holes on the two sides rather than top and bottom, like this frame.

The headbadge holes on the frame I have are vertically oriented, and on 57 mm centers. I found an eBay auction for a Falcon headbadge that claimed the hole spacing was 65 mm. Then I found another and sent the seller a question -- he responded that the spacing on his item was 2-1/4" (about 57 mm). So maybe it is a middle-range Falcon after all. I haven't seen any evidence of decals under the rattle-can paint. So far I've found the blue, some gray (maybe primer) and even black on the steerer tube, in addition to the orange. And no signs of serial numbers, either.