amen!

To be honest I've never heard a Christian joke..maybe I can be first!


Let's see.....

A Christian and an Atheist get into a car accident and die. Everyone presumed to know what happened next.



hmmm, I was gonna go for two but my brain stopped. damn!

hehe my last post was all j/k but really, I've never heard a Christian joke or read anything resembling a heartfelt desire to persecute Christians in any meaningful way. I'd bet it happens elsewhere but by and large you're free to believe what you want in North America right? You can believe in everything or nothing and all the things in between, a spiritual commitment comes with challenges regardless of its form. The real challenges are within, not snarky comments on the internet. Outside the internet Christians fare pretty damn well in North America.

Actually, I hear a never-ending stream of poking fun from one of my co-workers, various customers, my friends, sometimes even my girlfriend. They may not be "jokes" in the form of your earlier attempt, but comments made at the expense of others. As far as believing what you want, I really get a general sense from the "left" that it's ok to believe whatever it is you want as long as it isn't what those dang Christians do. My point is just that prejudice is ugly no matter who the butt of it is. I don't care if you have a perfect life and everyone loves you and ONCE in your life someone makes a comment that is disrespectful, it's ugly. It makes lesser beings out of all of us.

I do agree that all this talk about the persucted Christian is pretty funny. They only make up the majority of our country and, oh yeah, run it.
I think what is being talked about here is sort of the extreme secular/liberal view that Christians and religious people are stupid and backwards and hateful. Shows like Bill Mahr and The Daily Show (two shows of which I am a big fan, in the interest of full disclosure) sort of propagate this view. In general, I don't really care and think it's mostly done in jest. And like I said before, this assessment generally refers to a small minority of religious people.

I'm not religious at all. I tend to have a prejudicial view of the Christian Right and zealots of any stripe who perverse religious doctrines. I think religion can be fine, when not taken to the extreme. I personally don't need the bible or jesus to tell me how to treat other people or live my life, but whatever. It's when people twist the bible or take it too literally and use it as justification for hatred (homesexuality is an abomination) or subjegation or as a realistic alternative to science that I have a problem with it. And, again, I feel that those who tend to do that are those in the lime light, a small and vocal minority.

It's a stretch, true, but he's on track in some ways.

But you posted this big long speal....... Learn that if some one is truely a moron.. you're either a moron for argueing, or you truely believe you can change thier mind.

Either way.. ya loose. It's like racing a city bus. You can win.. but really, what have you won?

My point is that all of that doesn't change the fact that it helps NOTHING to make fun of someone.


What really pisses me off is that the more people are made fun of, the more defensive they get, even if things aren't directed at them, and it feeds the fear that the people in power in this country are so fond of. Divide and conquer.


I will tell you that beyond the shadow of a doubt that the majority of Christians are being told by the Christian media that the world is getting worse, and that the longer things go the way they are, the more persecution there will be of Christians (the Bible is full of that sort of thing) and they are afraid, which means they're going to be even MORE extreme and adamant because they're being told they MUST TURN THE TIDE OF EVIL!!!!


The truth of the matter is that ignoring someone is a much better way of getting them to shut up than making fun of them is. The more you put them on the defensive, the more they're going to hiss and howl like a cornered mountain lion.

"Go South young man!" Maybe it was just my upbringing. The only disses I heard with regard to Christianity where I grew up were from one Christian to or about another Christian that had slightly different beliefs. It all worked out in the end because they had different churches to go to on Sunday.

Chicago aint no small town in the South though. Talk to your head dude about the way a healthy dose of self-respect can combine with faith into a fairly impervious armour. You won't even feel bad for a strangers transgressions, much less feel bad about or because of what they've said or implied. I gaurantee your head dude doesn't feel bad over those comments cause it comes with the job but it's a practical skill that's taught rather than an innate ability born of faith alone.

For instance (also to turn the topic back to forum type stuff, bikes and whatnot) I get all sorts of guff because I'm a bike messenger. I get regular scorn, some hate, a fair bit of green eyed acrimonious spite from hell, and my favourite of all, sad faced pity At least a few times a day, not so much on the weekends

None of it means a damn thing to me and I no longer have any compulsion to defend or needlessly explain it to them no matter who they are. If they express an actual interest, well that's different.I'm down with discussion, no one loses with that. I'll tell em what they want to know if I can and nicely. The rest of the time it's not even an issue because I know who I am and why and it's enough. It's not a "screw them!" sort of reaction either, that'll eat out from the inside eventually though it may feel like venting. It's not that they don't matter cause they do matter as much as any stranger, everyone is people. They just don't have anything to do with it, what ever it is they're conveying.

Now if someone close started browbeating me...you fix that.

Agreed.
Did I mention that I like bikes?

What I'm REALLY looking for is some thought and discussion. Polite, friendly, intelligent discussion. I think politics and religion are full of ****, the way to make a difference is to help people learn to be better people by example and kind words.

Tell ya the truth, I stopped being a Christian quite a while ago, and I don't have any interest in renewing any of that crap. I don't know if there is a God, and quite frankly, I'm too busy with my life to really care. What I DO care about is people respecting each other. I don't like it when people make fun of ANYONE, which is the point I'm actually trying to get accross here. I live in a world of a$sholes (i'm no exception) and I'd like to change that as much as I can by helping people see that it doesn't help to be one, and the less you are one, the less you get treated like one. I figure you're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution.

How 'bout them bikes! I like 'em too!

So actually, you're trying to force your type of communication as best. Not that I think some here have the best form, but really, you're saying that all communication should be "Nice polite and friendly" to have merit or be effective.

Well, good luck with that.

I certainly don't agree. And I think the picture posted in part two is offensive, but I let that slide because it's a view point.

roadies love em

WRONG.

Often, banter, and making fun of people will bring about a perspective change or make them a little more aware of thier point of view. In fact, sometimes, it's the best way to ring someone's bell and make them realize that they are out of control, out of line, stupid, or the like.

I've used to to some success. And it's been used on me to some success.

Sure when it's done for PURE HATE then it's wrong. But when it's part of a normal dissagreement, it's fine. In fact it's natural.

In your world, you'd prefer that no one said anything wrong or slightly offended anyone. We'd all be nice, and friendly and good and sweet.

Well, live in your world: ride in mine.

Don't be a menace with your better than thou attitude either.

haha, you used that line on me like 4 or 5 months ago.

well you don't have a little star either, and over 3000 posts in 4 years?

I'm a ****in pirate not a messenger, i dont talk about cred i dont care if your bike is NJS-certified track or an old road frame conversion or if its even a fixed, i pillage and have fun. I'm one of those rare cyclists on the DC area trails that is actually smiling. I have donated to bikeforums.

I'm not terribly interested in supporting anyone who pushes their religous views on me or the public, there are more than enough missions around to convert the people who need converting, do we really need LBS spreading the gospel? There is a time and a place and i just dont think the bike shop is the place. I'm sure there are many here who agree completely with me, and many others who feel the opposite and need to 'save' as many souls as possible. if all they are trying to do is say 'we're a bunch of trustworthy christians' well thats their deal, but i kind of doubt it considering the quote.

everyone is entitled to their opinions and to voice them. if its overly offensive and without merit the moderators will take care of it. I'll post any complaints i have, thanks.

WTF do you know? Is the star the sole indicator of having DONE something for the forum?

Nope. I've contributed (not post stuff) in many ways. Ways that you don't know about, strike that arguement down assclown.

Yeah, I suck. Not so orginal any more am I.

Probably didn't do it for a good reason.

So, I apologize for it.

Yeah, I don't remember what the "heated discussion" was about.
But no need to apologize.
I didn't point it out to rag on you.

I didn't think you did.

It just reminded me that mostly what I'm known best for here is my agressive responses. I've tried to fix it... but it comes out. Must be my nature. Sucks to be me, perhaps.

In all honesty, I definitely have noticed a less aggressive nature to most of your responses.
Misunderstandings and hurt feelings occur way too often on here, so I guess every little bit helps.
Not to say that it's never called for.

It is disheartening to read posts here criticizing Gary for his religious views when most posters here never have even met him.

Although personally I'm a left-of-center Christian, I've known Gary Bolanger for a few years now and I consider him a good friend. He has never ONCE said anything to me about God or Jesus or anything else to convert me in MY faith. He even told me that he doesn't bring up religion to people he talks to unless somebody asks him about it.

And besides, he is the only LBS owner dedicated to fixed/SS, commuter, steel, urban cycling, "BOBish" bikes and we should be thankful for that. Who else around these parts (I mean where I live) does that, or even understands it? NOBODY!