Just wondering if Keirin frames have similiar geometry to "street" track frames like a Soma Rush or a Bianchi Pista or if it is more radical. Anyone using an old keirin frame as their regular street ride? Is it just too ridiculous? Just like the lugged steel thing and once in awhile you can find one for around the same as Rush or similiar.

MUCH steeper and more aggressive than the rush, a little steeper than the pista. tons of people use them as everyday street rides

A lot of people ride them on the street.

Generally speaking I think the geometry tends to be a bit more aggressive than the Rush, but there are tons of different Keirin frames. they all have different geometry. Wether a particular frame is appropriate for street use depends entirely upon how you feel about it. Of course you can ride it on the street. Will you be comfortable doing that? I can't guess. Some people ride stuff that I think looks terribly uncomfortable, but then a lot of people think that about my bikes too.

i use mine as a regular street ride.
the only downside is the toeverlap... i brush the tire every once in a while on slow turrrrns.

I didn't realize that the Rush geometry was more relaxed than the Pistas. So is it like Pista-->Rush-->Steamroller in order of more aggressive to more relaxed?

For some reason I figured that keirin was so strickly regulated that they were all about same even down to the geometry. Stupid assumption I guess.

they're awesome for the street until you dent one.

.....and dents kill street rideability?

no but they break your heart.

Pista 55cm: headtube 74º Seattube 75.5º Wheelbase 959
Rush 55cm: headtube 74.3º Seattube 75.3º wheelbase 958
Steamroller 56cm: Headtube 73.5º Seat tube 73.5º wheelbase 978.6

If anything the rush has steeper geometry, than the pista but I'm thinking it's actually pretty similar.

I get toverlap on my rush when trackstanding with the wheel the wrong way, or when turning slow.

Edit: I heart my rush.

interestingly, I found (on a Kalavinka) that the seat tube is steep, but the head tube was relatively relax. Maybe that design decison was made for stability when going WFO thru the turns. I'm in the process of modifying a street fork to work on this bike because I like having a front brake. btw: the stock fork measured 9mm shorter than a street fork.

Maybe meant for motorpacing?

that makes less sense

aren't most (if not all) keirin frames built to individual rider specs? or at least somewhat so? IE there wouldn't be the identical angles from frame to frame, as there isn't a "model" (like a "rush" or "pista") from each maker that is produced on any scale. i mean, obviously there is the starting point of some sort of formula at the beginning which is then tweaked a .5 degree or something per rider's pref. and, since the keirin frames are made with the quite specific purpose of keirin racing, they'd be more inclined to have aggresive/steep angles since they won't ever be ridden on a street (when they are being built, in theory at least... i mean the builder and the rider don't keep in mind that one day those frames will be brought to the us by strattond or whomever and then turned over into the hands of everyone and their mother).

i guess i'm not making a point or correlation really. i don't mean to sound like i am saying "keirin frames have no place on the street" because that is just silly. maybe my point is that there shouldn't be a comparison between something that is mass produced according with no variation in angles and something that is individually tailored to (more or less) one person's choices... i don't know where i am going, sorry all!

now i have a bike with incredibly little clearance in the front and the back, and quite steep angles to boot. i also have a track bike with more lax angles, more clearance, longer (wider?) wheel base. do i notice the difference in comfort and ride quality? of course.. my back hurts a bit more when dismounting that steep tight bike. i think the gaps between my two bikes' angles, though, are a bit bigger than .8 degrees (IE the h.t. diff between the steamroller and the pista). for someone that has ridden a pista and a steamroller back to back, is the difference in steepness noticeable? curious that's all.

sorry for the apparent scatterbrainedness, and general unhelpfulness of this reply !!!

keirin is motor paced till last lap.

Nah, stayer bikes have very steep head tube if I remember correctly, steep to the point that it'd be stupid to ride on the streets.

EDIT: I ride both my keirin on the streets and prefer it much more than riding an IRO because of the geometry, much better response. After riding the keirin for a while, the IRO felt like driving a semi

and negative rake.

is toeverlap inherently apparent in steep angled bikes? or smaller bikes? or both? obviously the longer the top tube the further forward the wheel is, thus eliminating toeverlap. and the steeper the angle the more inward that brings the wheel, thus heightening toeverlap... i guess its just something i haven't experience before. i ride a large bike that has steep angles, so my overlap is sortof cancelled out. i always wonder if its only on bikes smaller than, say, 55cm? or bikes with angles steeper than like 74?

I have toe overlap on my 57cm Rush with 170 cranks, but I think I could get rid if it with slightly smaller toeclips.

oh sorry, i forgot to factor in crank length!!! i was assuming the track "standard" 165... woopsy!
i was going to also then factor in shoe size too (larger feet means longer toe clips means toe meeting wheel!)... but, then again, someone that rides a 53 will have smaller feet (hopefully) than someone that rides a 60 so maybe that is cancelled out a bit with proportions and such.

I have a ****load of toe overlap on the Spicer, and the problem is mostly because the toeclips I have are too long (and the cranks are 172.5 which isn't helping). I am going to swap in a set of M clips for my current L clips and see how that works.

The sound of metal on rubber while turning tightly or trackstanding sucks

I have a 58cm Vivalo keirin frame that I use for urban riding, commuting and the rollers. I have a hair of overlap with my giant feet when using clipless pedals. Clips and straps make it much more, but completley rideable.

Your mind will adapt to whatever bike geometry you are faced with really...

-brad

i like that about the mind adapting. "cognitive dissonance" might be the correct term. i know my steep bike is a bit less comfy, but i "like" it a lot more and therefore sacrifice a bit of comfort for the pleasure i derive from riding it.

58cm vivalvo! pics?

my totally ****ing insane 58cm makino has virtually no overlap. when i switched from medium to large clips, a little was introduced, but i've never noticed it while riding. it's 80 seat, 76 head.

riding that ****er on the street regularly will make you sterile. the prostate massage is pretty orgasm-inducing, but can be too intense. it's super fun to ride in races and other events, but it'd be raw to commute on.

80 taint-ticklingly steep degrees of seat tube, my goodness.