i (heart) giraffes

now wheres my shirt!

tell me more

This reminds me of my bike commute home yesterday when this lady in what looked to be a pre-'89 Corolla (hard to tell with all the PETA stickers slathered all over it) drives by with a taxi-cab style tri-fold billboard mounted on the roof that read "The holidays profit off of the lives of animals". I thought it was pretty moronic on 2 counts: 1.) Her pre-'89 Corolla was spewing smoke out the tailpipe, polluting the air and reducing the quality of life for all living creatures 2.) The gasoline she bought is supporting the oil companies that sell the much-needed fuel to the slaughter houses and meat packaging facilities (aka, "The Killing Machine")

I don't know...it would've been MUCH more convincing to me if she had been pulling the billboard mounted to a Surly Xtracycle. That would've been more convincing.

Brooks or synthetic...both have ties to the death and suffering of animals. Although the Brooks wil be more of a visual reminder of the cow that died for it, what about the cow that died from the chainsaw to the neck fueled by the gasoline bought from the oil company that sells gas to the factory of said synthetic saddle and trucking fleet of the delivery company that got the saddle to you? How sure are you that your dollars won't be going to feed said saddle company's employee's family with double bacon cheeseburgers?

All things lead in one way or another to the death and suffering of animals. The synthetic saddle is not the more compassionate choice. Get the Brooks or make a saddle out of straw.

No, while you may not eat animal products, you aren't vegan as you use animal products. Veganism is more than the diet that abstains from consuming animal products; it is a lifestyle that abstains from using an animal product. If you want to make yarn out of your own hair or your friend's hair with his or her permission, go for it and I won't complain. But that sheep you just sheered for you cool new sweater didn't get the chance to object.

And the early argument from someone that using a 40 year old saddle makes it okay because it is old doesn't hold any weight. The animal was still exploited. It does not matter how many years ago it was. You might think you look cool, calling yourself vegan and wearing that 30 year old Campy jersey but you are only a step above meatmouths.

As far as saddles, my friend picked up one of the Specialized ones and absolutely loves it. I didnt' like the cut outs on it the one time I tried to ride it but it may have been that the saddle was too high for me. And when I get home today, I will have a fizik arione waiting for me. A friend with an all vegan bike shop - Mill Valley Cycle Works - hooked me up with it without having to sell a kidney. And I am sure my ass is going to love me for it. I am surprized that Selle Italia is using lorica on some of their saddles since their website talks up the use of leather. But the Italians know a few things about synethics that we Americans don't. Most Sidis shows are made of lorica because it breathes better and doesn't have the smell or stretch problems that leather have and is lighter than leather.

There are more than enough altneratives out there for the vegan or vegetarian in society to eat and wear a product that is less destructive on the earth and the animals. And those alternatives have certainly trickled down to the cycling world.

man, that's some first post to introduce yourself with

what exactly differentiates a "vegan" bike shop from a regular bike shop?

i'm not being snide, i'm really wondering.

also you really should address the earlier poster's point that even synthetic saddles lead to the death of animals and their habitats.

Do vegans spit or swallow?

Seriously.

(Okay, maybe not. But I'm still curious.)

Is it better to plow a field with a gas powered tractor or oxen?

The other practical options are?

Al

again, i refer you to



do you think he'd object?


i'm calling "troll" on this one.

i'm calling the next band i'm in "the meatmouths"

the vegan kids sure like to flap their gums. they're like political lobbyists or something. there just gonna keep on driving that point home, every chance they get. "i just want people to be educated about what they're doing" they yell. like they're actually persuading us or changing some minds. the more i hear them talk, the further my eyes roll back in my head and the less i care. you live your life, i live mine. please do the world a favor and step down from the soap box. thanks.

Sorry i had to...

pfft. the end.

You're correct, it wasn't a *** hoc ergo proctor hoc fallacy, more amphiboly.

Edit: stupid censor won't let me use latin. Wanted come spelt with a c, u and m.

Damn. Do what makes you feel good. Decide whether the no animal thing or the no synthetics thing is more important to you . Or decide that your chafed arse is the most important factor in your decision.

I'm almost entirely vegetarian. I've been known to eat fish once in a long while. I tend to like natural things more than non-natural things. I don't think animals are the same as humans. I do think animals should be treated with respect. I ride a Brooks, and it was new when I got it.

Do what you can do. You are already doing the earth a huge favor by not eating meat. I haven't eat mammals or fowl (started eating fish 2 years ago for health reasons) for eighteen years. Some of that time I was vegan, most of it I wasn't. At this moment in my life I wear leather and I just got a brooks. I think it's all relative. I may not be doing the absolute most I can for the environment and animals, but I'm doing a lot more than most of America, and I'm okay with that. Everyone should do what they feel comfortable doing. If being a full on vegan stresses you out, don't do it. For starters, you probably won't last that long, you'll snap and start eating sausage. Seriously, I know a few people this has happened to. IMO, driving a car is way worse for the world and the animals than using a leather saddle, and I know a ton of vegans who drive.

Before industrialization, all civilizations used domesticated animals in one way or another. If we didn't do that, then our ability to produce energy would be so low that we'd only be able to make food, shelter and crude tools. Medicine would consist of crude poultices and leeches; basic infections would be lethal. Humanity would only populate a small fraction of the earth's surface, would be at the mercy of predators like lions and tigers, and would have a life expectancy of the early 30's and 50% of our children wouldn't make it past 5.

*drum roll...*

We would never have progressed to the technology of smelting. There would be no bikes.

..

Let me put it this way. Vegans only exist because they're safely sheltered within a far more violent society. Enlightened Western societies are teetering on the very top of Maslow's Hieararchy, where luxuries such as 'living a moral code' are so commonplace that we can endlessly split hairs debating between the merits of different codes. If we were a pre-domesticated animal society, your debates would fall along the lines of 'do I escape the tiger by jumping into a tree or jumping off of a cliff?'

So... enjoy your veganism, but research cultural anthropology enough to realize that it's simply not feasible to be a peaceful, enlightened vegan without someone else being a vicious predatory carnivore protecting your camp. Bravo for having principles, but realize that our 'oneness' with nature makes things more complex than any human moral code is possible to anticipate.

BTW, if you can't tell, I read Transmetropolitan this weekend. I love Hunter S. Thompson, even when channeled by Warren Ellis.

i like meat.

Schnee, thanks for saying what I wanted to say, and in such an eloquent fashion!

I just wrote this long thing, but my friend's waiting on me at the bar, so I'm just gonna say to remember that in order to be vegan, you generally have to be pretty priveliged. Not only must you be in the sort of stable social position that Schnee was talking about, but you must also have the money to buy specialty foods, and the time to cook them yourself, and the resources to gather all of this information.

Of course it's possible to be vegan on the cheap, but tough to still be healthy. Also, lots of people are too busy worrying about where their next paycheck is coming from, how they're going to feed their kids tonight, how they're going to pay the bills and survive on a day to day basis to get all self-righteous about their eating habits.

Ah, this is all wrong, oh well, gotta go!

just do what the **** you want to do. i'm not vegan, but i have many vegan friends, and if you use any animal product you're not vegan. i'm not saying its a bad thing...i'm just sayin

I understand 70% of the words in this sentence.

Eat what you want, buy what you want. Jeez people.

dutret went over this pretty well.. the used and new markets are linked.. by creating demand in the used market.. you are also affecting the demand in the new for the same product

so like i said.. ride a brooks if youre feelin it.. but a used brooks is still dead cow skin.. if thats a problem to you then dont

as for vegans preaching.. like it or not.. meat eaters are ****in up the planet.. the whole.. "you do you thing, ill do mine" isnt a valid argument when someones thing is messing with another persons thing..

besides.. i hear far more meat eaters bragging about eating meat, then vegans preaching

but im not preaching, i eat fish and thats not helping much

You really hear meat eaters "bragging" about eatting meat?

1) I like to say how silly this is and how funny my point of view made some come out and spout on there soap box. ITS point of view ...what I cant have one**********
2) I agree with TNCLR ANYONE be it leftist, rightist, liberals, Christians, scientologists and vegans...have got to get off of there high horse seriously you are not living 100% up to your ideals.
WHY THEN ARE YOU ON A MESSAGE BOARD GO OUT AND PROTEST your ideals
Its so silly
Especially some vegans( mind you some) They get a holier than thou attitude, I dont eat anything that secrets fluids , I dont eat anything that casts a shadow.......well have your" whose d!ck is bigger" contest outside I want to live my life.
If you really are 100% vegan go live in the woods build your self a cabin and stay away from electricity since yoou are seriously trying not to harm all animals and the world. This attitude cause others to be apathetic and never do things that help out...even though small and miniscule every little bit can help out the cause.( I step off of my vegan friendly soap box made of synthinc plastic and fibers)
If you dont think Im vegan then piss off, I never asked you.....then Im not vegan ...Cris sakes
3)
Finally...
this is the silliest animal

I think it funny when I see a saddle that is plastic or something that is made to look like leather, same with wraps... come to think of it why are there veg products that are made to taste like meat. I just saw some veg bacon, kinda creeped me out. If you don't get the Brooks, please don't get one that suppose to look like leather, seems strange in some way, but I can't put my finger on why.

pops, always says he's on a see-food diet, if he can see it he's gonna eat it...hehe