i think it sounds fishy too.


but you're assuming that a protest or political statement has to be properly executed or it ceases to be a statement at all. that's ridiculous. let's go back to my (obviously problematic) racial civil rights analogy.

just because a number of the protesters are guilty of some crime, does that mean they aren't making a political statement by protesting racial injustice? what if they beat up a white kid in highschool for calling him a racial name? even if the protest itself is poorly executed or problematic in nature, even if the protest is "down with whitey" or "the man is keeping us down", does that make the political statement less valid? is racism suddenly not a problem anymore? does the political meaning of the protest disappear because of the quality or rhetorical angle of the statement?

let's look at it from another view...

if the CM riders weren't riding bikes, but instead in smartcars and protesting all vehicles that got less than 30mpg city epa ratings... would their lane violations and other such disqualifying actions make the message non-political?




don't pretend your logic is flawless... say what you mean. if you mean to say that critical mass is a problematic and unconvincing political statement because they're so unruly and anarchical ... well that's fine... but don't act like this woman wasn't doing something she knew was not going to be well liked. the reporter said she was weaving between bicyclists. if she had simply played the role of the victim she's so expertly perfected now and done what most defensive people would have done... flashers on, slowly slow down and slowly move to the shoulder/curb and slowly stop until the mass had passed and it was safe to drive again... if she had done that i don't think they would have killed her minivan.

but yeah, maybe she's some random victim of a violent and entirely unprovoked act.

'that sounds a lot like blaming the victim!'

you're damn right i am. her actions made her the victim just as much as the attackers actions made them attackers. did she do anything wrong? probably not - but that doesn't mean she did anything right. does she deserve the sympathy she got? hell no.


the solution is simple. fix her car, require CM rides to be organized properly.

oh wait, that's the reality of what will happen. yet CM will continue to be unruly and cars will continue to get busted. unless people start acting differently and more carefully / respectfully, ****'s not going to change.

i really don't think it deserves a sob story. if it were a man who got his car beat up i would have the same view of the situation, i doubt the media would be handling it similarly.

Ambulances get through in no time, even in rush hour. Lights + siren + horn + other lane = open traffic.
Speaking of CM and that intersection though, there was an incident bigger than this one in SF just last year.

its civil disobedience 101 that you have to play by ALL the rules for your cause to get any sort of traction. in the very rare case where breaking a rule could advance your cause you have to be very somber and serious about it.

look at the civil rights movement. if blacks went up into "whites only" diners and started dancing on the counters they wouldn't have gotten anywhere. people get all upset about bikes not getting any respect on the road and then they just go and breed more resentment out of motorists by acting like morons at CM.

once you start doing that kind of thing, your cause looses all political relevance. its not a protest anymore, its just hooligans.

i wasnt trying to say that the woman was inocent. it was a bad combination irritable bike mob and clueless suburbanite. i really cant say who is at fault, but the cyclists could have taken the high road and not retaliated.

thats all

^ hit the nail on the head right there. CM is all about us riding around on bikes, throwing molotov cocktails into capitalist chain stores, smashing the state, and burning all those evil cars. hell, sometimes we don't even use the bikes.

I was at the Critical Mass that evening. Three hours into the ride I came upon the scene in question just shy of Japan town. When I arrived there were a few woman shouting obscenities to the driver pounding on her hood ,taking pictures,etc. The driver was not doing anything and she was in shock from my point of view. Maximum amount of people when I was present was 6, no more no less. Cop approached on a motorcycle then i left the scene. I didn't know of the outcome until 3 days later when it hit the paper. I myself did not see anyone injured at the scene so I don't see why this happened. The B*^&$# on bikes who did this definitely don't represent myself or others by their actions, however, they do contradict what critical mass stands for, period. Road rage is road rage whether you are in a car or on a bike. I hope those responsible for this get punished to the fullest extent of the law. Next month if this kind of s*!7 goes down I will bringing my own form of frontier justice upon those who pull this kind of crap. This is not a joke but a promise. If those who are responsible for this are reading this just try me. I know what you look like!

jim-bob, you "hateful little monkey" (your tagline)...the meaning of my "Rock Hard ~ Ride Free" tagline is that it's an awesome song and does have a cool double-meaning for those into riding motorcycles and bicycles. Critical Mass does not have a beneficial effect on decent, taxpaying, law-abiding riders. Their actions cause people in cars to resent people on two wheels.

The last CM I attended was in SF in '96. Full of morons then, full of morons now.

I want you to read what you just wrote very, very carefully.

ahem ahem um the mom and daughter in front pics no joke they're real- not so loud they do have ears you know.

please dont turn this thread into an argument over critical mass and "civil disobedience."

i was wondering if i'd have to point that out, or when someone else would catch it.

This is the whole story IMHO.... " Police said she might have inadvertently tapped one of the bicyclists' tires.

Bicyclists who witnessed the event countered that Ferrando had accelerated recklessly through a crowd of riders, hitting one and knocking him from his bike, then attempted to flee the scene before riders surrounded the vehicle. They complained that police didn't charge her with a crime."

The police certainly DO NOT like CM. So they are certainly going to look the other way if a car comes in and some fat women is aggressive towards the cyclists. This lady I believe acted aggressively and got what she had coming to her. She endangered her own kids and blamed it on the cyclists. She knocked someone from a bike and no one gives a ****e about it except the cyclists that saw it. It is this way most places.

In the end of all this media, the cyclists will lose and that is and has been the way for years and years. Even here people are siding with the dumb women that hit a cyclist. We are always at fault in the public eye and even here we are at fault.

I think the key part to this equation is not the politics or the road rage, but the psychology of a crowd. CM is a crowd and behaves differently that an assembly of individuals.
A little outdated, but Gustav le Bon had some interesting things to say about it.

(sorry about the nerdery, I'm doing schoolwork)

Crowd theory and how it relates here could be an awesome paper.

The "victim" obviously didnt care too much either since they didnt exchange information, didnt wait for the police, and stated they were fine before they took off. However, I do like how you are able to construct a whole chain of factual events based purely on your opinion.

I'm dying to hear how he explains that comment.

he quoted this article. https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGFAP353S1.DTL

the one about the "victim" doing a hit and run and knocking the guy off his bike, then trying to get away before the other cm riders caught up. not based on opinion.

Wow, I honestly didnt even see those quotes (been awake 2 days). My point still stands that you cant argue no one cares when the original victim obviously didnt either. After seeing this video I wonder if they tried to stop her when they first saw the erratic driving and why/how did the biker leave after the accident.

this is for dustin (taken from Burd on FGG forum)

i was kinda being sarcastic. i think everyone in the situation is at fault, on both sides. i was just mocking the womans passionate "there are chiiilldren in this car!!" monologue.

personally i try to stay as far away from cm as i can, but thats mostly cuz I dont really enjoy playing a 2 hour game of footdown

dudebro misspelled Capisce.

Every month, I enjoy CM for about 10 minutes (talk to people I haven't seen in a while) and then I get really depressed for the rest of it because there's always the car that tries swerving through everyone and taps someone and then the ride nearly splits in two as everyone swarms the car and starts yelling and hitting it. So yeah, that SF story happens every month here basically.

That story is soooo ****ing good. I got such an amazing mental image of a bunch of mad max style cyclists with swinging chains and battle axes chasing down a minivan filled with a family of trashy suburbanites.