Depending on how nice this frame is and how many they can crank out, maybe we could use it for a new BFSSFG group buy.

The Madone is a relatively slack tour-race frame, which is why a lot of the roadies don't recommend it here. I was always confused by that until I learned more about frame geometry.

Exactly. The Modone is all wrong if you aren't:
A) Racing in the mountains
B) Racing over 65 mile distances on a regular basis, or racing stage races
C) Have a physical defect that requires a plusher ride

If you are doing crits, points races, TT's, and short flat road races, a TDF replica is a waste of money. If you are doing centuries+, stage races, long road races, or supported tours, then it makes some sense. Though I'd still argue that a well made custom steel or ti frame is a much better choice for many people.

That's not a half-bad idea...

Me likey group buy idea

me too.

Were you able to find out what rims they use? If I had known about them before buying the Formula/CXP22 combo I would have probably bought them.

These guys aren't making any of this stuff themselves, the pedals have to be available elsewhere. Also, they say 107 BB for the Andel Cranks, Bens says 110.5. WTF?

a silver chain on that ^^ would be stunning!

While there are no numbers so this is all just speculation it sounds like they(the idiots at alien) are describing a bike meant to turn with the bars more then the riders weight. Given how ****ed up their opinions on other parts of bike design are it wouldn't surprise me if they built a bike like that which would feel tight and responsive in the hands of a novice rider (or someone use to riding a track bike that doesn't fit) but like **** in the hands of an experienced cyclist.

I dunno Dutret, the geometry doesn't look that out of the ordinary to me.

well it is a bike with a double triangle design and low rake but other that that you can't really be sure of all that much from a picture.

The most likely scenario is that Alien picked the bike out of a catalog from a major Taiwanese manufacturer, and then pretended that they designed some super sweet track bike for urban riding, or some other such nonsense.

^^ Yep. Looks like every other one of their parts is from somewhere else.

Looks like they just updated the info/description on the frameset:

Seems alright to me, lets face it, most of us aren't racing on a track so why sip on the haterade when a company tries to make a frame with us in mind?

what similar lugged taiwanese bike is there?

+1

Aren't the lugged Somas Taiwanese? The Madison fork is allegedly brazed as well, which means there's someone over there with a torch. But yes, brazing is not exactly what they do all day at Kinesis/Maxway/etc...

https://www.maxway.com.tw/cgi-bin/pro...t.pl?ProdID=98

Also, as Landgolier points out, Soma has lugged steel frames that are, presumably, from Taiwan. Rivendell and Velo Orange have or are introducing lugged steel frames from Taiwan (according to the Velo Orange blog).

Actually, looking at them closely, these Alien frames appear to use the same ends as the Soma Delancey. The tubing is obviously different, but it's probably the same factory (edit: Maxway, as per above)

With the exception of velo orange, possibly, none of those come close to the geometry described. Maybe super steep means 73.5 though and they just put a low rake fork on to make the dt clearance more "aggressive". I really don't know what type of idiocy someone who is offended by a flip flop is capable of. Someone who cares more then I should email them for specifics.

If the question is whether they came up with the geometry or picked it out of a catalog only things that could possibly have the same geometry are relevant.

It's true that we don't know the geometry, but my point is that it's quite probable that the Alien bikes people simply pointed to the "track" frame in the Maxway catalog and said "make this with lugs." And this is ignoring the fact that Maxway sells a lugged steel track frame already.

Also, I know this is hardly proof-positive, but compare the track-ends in this photo with the ones from the Maxway bike I posted above.