i think it really depends how cheap you can get the 853 frame. there are lots of other options for high-end track frames on the market, and really the demand isn't for high-end **** anyway. what doesn't exist out there is a nice enough (520) -lugged- track frame for cheap. the TT is awesome because of the lugged fork, tight geo, 520 tubing and price - I think if you made a lugged version people would be willing to pay more.

and yes, that's for aesthetic reasons.

..

Pre-attached top tube pad and generic spoke cards + 1

I would vote 853 tig. There are a number of lower cost track frames available with 520 or 4130, but not a lot available with nicer tubing unless you go find some vintage lugged steel. I love lugged steel, but to keep the cost down I would have no problem riding a 853 tig welded frame.

Aren't hipsters supposed to adopt popular socially-responsible causes, so they can attempt to outdo one another with their progressiveness?

...in which case, no legitimate hipster would purchase a new frame from a place like BD while there are perfectly usable frames floating around, destined eventually for the landfill.

(note: I support the "reduce, reuse, recycle" doctrine because I like the earth, not because I am a hipster - although you may call me what you will.)

You crack me up. :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

http://www.velocitynation.com/pictures/image/cranks.jpg

Can I ask? Why in the world would you want a lugged frame? 1) brazing isn't as good as a weld (Geekhouse explained the difference to me), and 2) you're stuck with a built in, nonreplaceable seatpost binder.

I don't think you're asking this question sincerely, because I think you already know the answer. People want lugged steel because that's how vintage track bikes (and keirin bikes) were made, and vintage track bikes are trendy now. End of story.

gosh, because seatpost binders are known for ****ting on you all the time :rolleyes:

+1 853 tig'd frame. good luck finding an 853 track frame anywhere else - i don't know of any besides the ultra-rare samson or other keirin frames that pop up once every blue moon in 853. alien bike just came out with a 520/4130 lugged track frame, and besides dutret talking down on it, it appears to be suitable for a good amount of potential track bike buyers that want lugs.

But this is a bike from bikesdirect, far, far from a handmade vintage track bike.

Hence, my sincere questioning people's motives for wanting a lugged BD.

[QUOTE=blickblocks;5588435]1) brazing isn't as good as a weld.

Holy **** thats funny, almost as funny as "Brazing is better than welded."

I would soooo kill for the 853 frame. I love the way lugs look, but nicer tubing is much more important.

Aluminum with a lugged threaded fork ala 90's canondales would make a killing although I don't even really want one. Also, I'd love a reasonable lugged frame but the price point is everything. Too high and you might as well go with a vintage or custom frame. 4-500 is money. These are all just opinions though, the thing I feel strongest about is how awesome it is that BD is doing this kind of research and not just popping out some "trendy fixie" like a lot of companies at the moment.

I dont know anything about frames, so people vote and get the best one so I can buy it too!

I don't see how that's relevant. What I said is that a welded frame is no better than a lugged or fillet brazed frame. It seems like Dave is saying the same thing.

I have an 853 tigged road bike I converted. I like it a lot. :)

Alright, then let me be more clear - they want a bike that looks like what they believe a "real" track bike is, which consists of a lugged steel frame. I'm not arguing for this, I think it's useless nostalgia, but that's the reason why.

The thing is, I don't think you're really this naive, I think you're just being coy. It seems like you're more interested in sharing your knowledge of welding vs. brazing than you are curious.

My rode bike came from bikesdirect and I love it. ; )

Though I love lugs dearly, I don't reckon a lugged bike from a factory in Asia in 2007/8 is much to get excited about.

So I'd vote for the 853 TIG'd.

.....I'd also like a horizontal top tube, a threaded fork and the clearance to fit 700 x 28 tires, snugly.....

since we're talking frames only (instead of completes which are hell to ship) would these be available north of the border?

I'm sorry, I just thought lugged went out the door with threaded forks. You seem to be insisting this point that I'm trying to troll huh?

I would like to say something about STEEL

Lots of people are asking for options in steel frames. A wide variety of requests: Lugged and Tigged. Full 4130, Reynolds 520, Reynolds 631, Reynolds 853, and other tubing too. Riders interested in Track, Touring, Commuting, CycloCross, Road, XC Mountain, and more.

I hear these requests and appreciate them. I understand that those asking for lugged know it is not for function but to look nice. Cost of course is high these days for lugged. Over $100 added to a frame. I think lugs for appearance need to be real nice – such as stainless exposed or ornate.

Even though there a small market, I would like to do something. So I am getting some samples. Tig 853 Road and ATB powder-coated – would be about $299 for frame only. Lugged Track and Road powder-coated for about $399 frame only. I am of course only considering the top maker in Asia.

I will probably bring 3 or 4 frames in addition to the current Kilo TT. Not nearly enough for everyone’s wish list. But a start.

I am still interested in any input and feedback. Lugs worth $100 [plus extra weight and less choice in frame design]. Tubing. Use. Design.

Especially, tubing brand. As now Reynolds is getting very expensive due to value of currency. TrueTemper or Tange would be less expensive.

Thanks

Mike

Kaisei is nice tubing if you can get it.

Yeah, I understand the Reynolds thing. We forget about the exchange rate, but you could probably get a comparable steel from Tange for considerably less. I know I'm personally not so in love with Reynolds that it'd be a deal maker/deal breaker.