Was wondering if beyond shortening the wheel base by producing a frame with a wheel cut out or curved seat tube (moving the back wheel further forward) do frame makers do this to allow the wheel base to be short while keeping the front wheel further forward minimizing toe overlap.

Or do most bikes with a wheel cut out / shorter wheel base still experience a lot of toe overlap and the wheel cut out is not designed to minimize overlap at all.

thx

The wheel cut out is for aerodynamic purposes, not designed with reducing toe overlap as a chief, if any, concern.

Pushing the wheel further forward would result in either a different head tube angle, fork rake, or some combination of both. This of course would affect the steering and responsiveness of the bike as well. For an example of crazy head tube angles, look up some funny bikes (Schwinn Prologue). They ran a 700C in the back and 600A up front.

wheel cut outs and bent seat tubes are not designed to minimize toe overlap. Doing so would be effecting really important issues like handling and balance for a really minor one.

I don't understand why people have so much trouble with toe overlap. I can't remember the last time I was pedaling in excess of 60rpms and turning tight enough to encounter overlap.

Although it is a non-issue for most, toe-overlap can be minimized by running clipless pedals.

on a track frame, the wheel cutout is primarily to shorten the wheelbase (specifically the rear-center measurement) to keep the handling balanced on a frame with a steep headtube angle and low rake. doing so shortens the chainstays but doesn't affect anything forward of the bb/seat tube.

on a time-trial or tri frame, arguably the rear wheel cutout is primarily for aerodynamic advantage.

That's because it usually occurs at low speeds, which some of us mortals are forced to ride at from time to time.

Track frame builders don't give a ***** about toe overlap.