I hate this type of consumer. It is one thing to be well informed, and another thing to be completely anal about every little detail about a purchase that MANY people make. These bikes are tried and trued for being quality beginner bikes, and yet you still cannot recognize that. Oldfixedguy is right, you are asking for answers that people simply do not have, and he gave you a good reason for not having those answers. You choose to become ignorant to that fact.

No one can calm your personal doubts about these bikes it seems, and that is fine. Go buy a Branded fuji track then. End of story.

as previously stated, in reference to Oldfixedguy's first response:
what are you trying to communicate, Dinosaur?
please read my above quote.
I got the gist of his post and moved on.

Now here you are fanning the flames.
Instead of entering what is supposed to be a constructive dialogue with self-described "hate", how about saying nothing?

Moving on....

you all amaze me.

moving on to what? your question is resolved then.

man this thread is full of... win.

annnnnyyywaaaayyyyy

instead of fretting over about who makes what frames and where its made and blah blah blah, read the threads about the particular bikes and everyones' review. this forum has provided a wealth of information and testimonials that it just got me SOLD on a kilo tt. research less and buy the damn bike already!!!! its pointless to ask super detailed questions about something you dont have yet. ride it. "learn" it. experience some problems AND THEN post here for solutions. 'cause at least that way, your questions have some experience in them to be appropriate. right?

not being a flamer or anything but i used to be like that--researching the s-h-i-t out of something before i buy it. then i got really really tired of it and told myself, "****, im not going to really learn anything from reading specs and other peoples' experiences. i need to learn it for myself."

RRR1CH,

The reality is I was angry with you and it had little to do with the actual questions you wanted answered. It was much more the fact that you didn't care for a second if the hoped for rebranding was legal or not. Not in all of your research did that come up as an issue for you. All you cared about is that good, old #1 got a good price. Now, you should be an informed consumer. You should check things out. You should price compare. But, the idea you chased had deeper issues that you could have cared less about. It is a theme I see much too often here. It surprises and saddens me because the results of blatant self absorption, uncaring and greed are all around us right now. The financial district, automotive and health care industries, the environment, etc.. If you get yours then to hell with everyone and everything else. This is not something that is simply outgrown. It is a manner of thinking and living. Wanting to be upright. Wanting to be of value to something bigger than yourself. On and on. It's time we all start calling each other on our own crap. You need to think about what is right before you think about you. Otherwise, you will be what so many before you and so many after you have been or will be - a failure.

You are absolutely right. I realized what I was doing shortly after my post.



I see where you are coming from 100% (though I assumed that if the frames were in fact rebranded, they would be rebranded legally).
Perhaps some context is in order.
Have been debating on buying from a LBS. Wanted to see if the BD offerings really provide the $ savings without sacrificing quality. The more I'd talk to people the more I've come to the conclusion that i want to support my LBS (actually I am planning on purchasing from Abba Padre Bikes and Books- started by mechanic at Helen's Cycles in Los Angeles. Bike shop in the back, wife sells Spanish language bibles in front. Super small place. https://bikesandbooks.com/ )


And this rings oh-so-true:
thanks again for your help guys.
really looking forward to sharing my experiences with you all.

Sorry to stir... but oh well. Saw this the other night looking around:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_USA

it points to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinesis_Industry_Co._Ltd.

That's really fascinating. I had a relevant conversation with an employee at the LBS recently. He was saying that there are pretty much 3 or 4 companies that makes frames for almost all brands. He said that one of the big ones was owned by Yamaha- I can't remember who they made frames for(maybe Giant, KHS, etc.- don't quote me on that though).

I'm not really sure why this turned into a flame-fest, but I find discussions on topics like these very interesting.

very interesting. i had no idea.

Just when I'm ready to turn in my human card someone blows my self righteousness, justified indignation stance out the door by being decent. ****.

HED3 wheels are made in a HED factory in Spain. Just because someone in Taiwan makes a reasonable looking HED knock-off, does not mean it's the HED factory.

Decent is as decent does.

Thanks again for all the info guys.


AND:

I am off in the next few minutes to go buy a Surly Creamroller! First bike I can call my own since I was a child.

I previously mentioned that I was going to purchase from Los Angeles' Abba Padre Bikes and Books. Went there yesterday. Owner, Freddy, SUPER NICE! All smiles. Not much in the way of new complete bikes, but this is definitely where I'm taking my bike for all tune-ups, repairs, etc.

Instead I am going to purchase from Orange 20 Bike shop, started by a couple of the Bicycle Kitchen guys. Hopefully I will get the same level of service as Freddy gave me.

stay tuned...