Ok, so I just got my Kilo WT and it's a great bike...except for the wheels. They are quite obviously the weak point in the setup, the frame is nice (very nice, nicer than I expected), the crankset is fine (Sugino...not fancy, but fine), the stem/seatpost/handlebars are all generic, nothing fancy, but perfectly serviceable. The only real weak point is the wheelset. They are heavy, the hubs suck, etc...just not too good on the whole.

So, I took it off, slapped it onto an old frame I had laying around and sold the bike (complete with other spare parts) for $250.

I'm looking to get a new wheelset, something strong, fairly light for the bike. This is my "around the city/everything bike" now so I need the wheels to be reasonably strong but I also want something a bit lighter than what came. So...

I'm going to build myself up a wheelset and I need your all's suggestions on what to get.

Sealed? Loose-bearing? I'm completely comfortable with hub-upkeep, so I don't really mind either way.

I was thinking something along the lines of a 28h front road hub (ultegra or 105) laced to an Open Pro for the front using DT swiss butted spokes.

A 32h rear Formula laced to open pro, DT swiss butted spokes.

Other than that, I'm kind of at a loss. What other rims are strong/light? What kind of hubs should I get?

I'm trying to keep everything at roughly $300 bucks.

Thanks!

velocity fusions

The build you described with the open pros is a really good option.

White Industry hubs to open pros.

Open Pros are an anachronism. Build with a newer deeper rim, such as a Kinlin 30mm and unless you are a total clyde, go with 24 spokes in front and 28 in the rear. You'll end up with a stronger and more aero wheelset that weighs about the same. Also use Wheelsmith DB14's. They are a bit more strongly butted than DTs, cost as much or less. I build with them and IMO they are better than DTs.

I want to keep things at around $300 for both wheels... WI hubs wont let me do that.


@Biffle...
The fusions look interesting, but...they are heavier than the Open Pros and I have some concerns with deep-sectioned rims (see below).



@ mihlbach....

I've never heard of Kinlin before but my questions really applies to all aero rims. What really makes them better? They are marginally stronger, but I don't think it is that much of a difference compared to a high quality rim like an Open Pro. The aero advantage is really negligible isn't it? I mean we're talking about a few mm deeper than a rim like the Open Pro, not a disc wheel or something.

I'm not sure I really want to go to 24/28 for everyday city riding. I could do a 2cross pattern with 24 right? I don't want to go radial...weaker...or is that just another one of my faulty misconceptions?


Hmm. How much of a difference are there between the many low end hubs? I can't afford/don't want something ridiculous like a Phil or a Paul for the rear wheel, but how different really are Miche/Formula/Surly hubs?

i road miche hubs and much preferred those to my recent formulas. about to give a level hub a try though actually. i'd say look into them, really nice guys and seemingly bombproof stuff, but that would put your build way out of it's price range.

haha, yeah, way out of my price range.

BTW, I'm looking for a flip-flop hub on the rear so I can run a freewheel. I don't want a hub with only a fixed side.

1. Deeper rims are will giver you a substantially stiffer wheel both vertically and laterally. Consequently, the load cycles exerted on the spokes are less severe, and the wheel itself is stronger and more durable. Therefore its possible to use fewer spokes, gaining you further aerodynamic advantages. The increased aerodynamics of a deep-rimmed wheel have been shown to more than offset the cost of the slight weight increase of a deeper rim. You asked about an all-purpose wheelset. In the roadie world, wheels with semi-deep rims are considered the best all-purpose compromise between weight, strength, and aeroness. Shallow rims are mostly used these days for climbing wheels. Wheels with semi-deep rims are still very light, more durable, and have increased aerodynamic advantages that more than offset the minor weight increase.

2, Kinlin rims are sold under a variety of brand names and, in the roadie world, have easily supplanted OPs as the rim of choice for all-purpose aluminum clinchers. They are the lightest rims available (per rim depth), and shown to be extremely durable. Kinlin Niobium 30s are barely heavier than OPs. OPs are still around only because of the inertia of their long-held reputation. You can buy rims today that are far far better.

3. Undished (FG/SS) wheels are much stronger than heavily dished road wheels, thus allowing you to go with fewer spokes than an equivalent road bike wheel. Most FG/SS bikes are equipped with cheap machine built wheels. Because of the poor quality of the build, these wheels are overbuilt with high spoke counts and heavier rims. If the wheels are built correctly, a 24/28 spoke wheel is going to last longer than a poorly built 32 or 36 spoke wheel. Furthermore, a 2x 28 spoke rear wheel with a 30mm deep rim and high flange hub, if built properly, is going to be as durable as a 32 spoke OP, and based on my own experience and contrasting weight recommendations I have heard from various builders, it may actually be more durable.

4. Radial lacing in the front provides only marginal weight and aerodynamic advantages but it will significantly increase the lateral stiffness of the wheel. There really is no point in crossing spokes on a wheel that is not experiencing torque. The only problem with radial is the excessive radial stresses on the hub flanges, although hubs break very rarely. If you buy a hub that is rated (and warranteed) for radial lacing then I say go or it, if not, do 1x on the front.

5. I'm 205 pounds and have been hammering on a pair of 24/28 wheels with 30mm Kinlin rims, cxray spokes, formula rear hub (2x), and front Formula road hub (radial), without a single problem for over 4000 miles now. I built this wheelset for about $340, but you could easily get it down to $300 with unbladed spokes. It is about 600 grams lighter, stiffer, and noticably faster than my old 32/32 3x wheels with surly hubs DT spokes and CXP33 rims. My road bike, which has the same wheelset (but with road hubs) has lasted over 5000 miles, and they are as true true as the day I built them.

6. I would stick with a formula or novatec rear hub. They perform just as well as higher end hubs. It has been claimed that the bearings are lesser quality, though in my experience (with formulas) the bearings are very smooth and last a long time. Even if the bearings crap out, you can replace then with phil-quality bearings for a few dollars. In terms of performance and durability, a fomula hub with phil bearings is basically the same a phil hub at 20% of the cost. There are many good front road hubs to choose from..anything from Shimano, Formula or Novatec are going to be fine. Check out Bob Dolapina threads in the group buy subforum.

Good luck!

in addition to point 6.

Even if the bearings do die, sealed bearings are really, really cheap to buy.

Even if they ever do, even ceramic bearings can be bought for around $50!

I have a set of 8 or so year old RevX wheels, yes they are carbon wheels, but the bearings are sealed cartridge and are still silky smooth.

https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespeed-fixed-gear/539905-homebuilt-affordable-lightish-wheelset.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespeed-fixed-gear/561075-lightweight-track-wheelset-finally-done.html

Get Velocity Aeroheads oven Open Pros.

The Roadie Forum has had many epic debates over wheels and rim depth. You need 40mm or more to get the aerodynamic benefits and those only at high speeds. If you race or do a lot of fast, long distance riding, then go for it.

Deeper rims are stronger but how strong do you need? Yes, you can get by with fewer spokes but you don't want to go down to 16/20 spoke counts.

Well built wheels with cheap rims will be much better than poorly built wheels with expensive rims so keep that in mind.

www.oddsandendos.com is a well known wheel builder that uses niobium rims. Mike Garcia will build you whatever you like.

Awesome write-up mihlbach

Thats a load of bull. The 40mm threshold is a myth perpetuated by people who just repeat what they hear. Of course rims over 40 mm are more aero than those less than 40mm, but the aerodynamics gains of rim depth decrease with increasing depth. In other words, you derive more aerodynamic benefit going from 20-30mm than you would from 30-40mm. Keep in mind that deeper rims are also heavier. A 30 mm Kinlin rim is barely heavier than an OP, but 40+ mm deep rims are much heavier. Everything is a compromise, and 27-30 mm is the sweet spot for a general purpose aluminum clincher road rim.

well i know what rims i'm getting for that rear wheel i've been thinking of building.

@mihlbach,

again, awesome write up. I must say, you've made a convincing argument. From what I've seen, the KinLin's are cheaper, very slightly heavier, more aero and stronger than the OP's. They get rave reviews most places.

Its looking like i'm going to pull the trigger on the following setup

Front Wheel: Ultegra Hub, 24h or 28h (can't decide still), Kinlin XR-300 Rim, DT Swiss butted spokes. Radial Lacing. I cannot seem to find a front formula road hub anywhere. It's very strange.

Rear Wheel: Formula Hub, 28h, Kinlin XR-300 rim, dt swiss butted spokes, 2cross pattern.

What about something such as these https://madison.craigslist.org/bik/1408494120.html

No I'm not selling them, I'm thinking about buying them.


mihlbach, awesome info! Thank you.

^not sure if it's just the pic, but those look kind of beat up, almost rusty even. It's a bit on the steep side for used rims too, at least from my point of view.

My budget was around 300 bucks and I'm pretty close to that. Granted, I am going to build the wheels myself so...

I was going to suggest this, but it was the first post. Also, those Kinlin rims look pretty nice.