Are they any good? How are they on the NJS hierarchy?

You must be watching that frame from affinity; they're sick man, like any NJS frame. I think within the 35 give-or-take NJS brands, it's all a matter of personal preference. My favorites are Remintons, Samsons, and Bridgestones.

Haha, yep. How much do you think it''s really worth? That 3Rensho they had went for $600 +shipping w/o a fork. But it's definitely cheaper than buying one from the Japan-based online stores.
I heard Watanabes are actually made by the guy who made 3Renshos? Is that true?

no, that's not true, because they guy who made 3renshos - yoshi konno - is dead.

like many other keirin frame companies, watanabe makes nice bikes.

Ok thanks. I'm stuck between two choices right now. I can either get that used Watanabe for prolly $600 or I can get a new custom Marinoni Pista for around $680.

Which would be better?
The Marinoni has some good Columbus Zona steel, but the Watanabe only has Tange 1 tubing.
But the Watanabe might look slightly better.
New or old?
hmm...

makino used to do 3rensho too iirc. he's now building makinos, duh.


i'm biased, but i like peloton. not too many people doing fillet brazed steel, i kinda prefer the look to lugged