the only carbon parts i have are the fork and seat post (which really isnt that light) and the only titanium is the seat rails. the dt rims are strong, true, and sexy, but by no means light 570g (which is more than a v deep)

anyway, like you stated, i bet most fixed gear bikes are 20-23lbs which i would consider light for the same reasons you stated.

it would suck to have an Al fixie above 20lb. My 67cm cromo/hi-ten bike is 23lb.

67cm!

Sure, I understand that "it is not hard to build a light fixed gear", but I disagree that "it is hard to build a heavy fixed gear" Is your example typical of the norm or is it an exception? My observation is that most FGs are steel framed and have generally heavy wheels, even expensive ones. I have a 1976 Schwinn Paramount P14 steel track bike that is only 49cm and has very light tubular box section rims/tires and no brake, and it weighs 17 lbs. I'm sure that a 60cm version would be a good pound heavier. I see that the Wabi has a "thin walled tubing frame", so I sure hope you treat it with kid gloves.

i should have clarified. i would consider light 20-23lbs. thats 23% heavier than your 76 schwinn. unless your using a lot of old parts or really chap stuff, you will probably be under the 23lb mark. if hairnet is correct, he made it with a 67cm steel bike.

starting a different thread.

sorry OP

edit:
weight thread

the only difference you should feel between 'crap' wheels and 'good' wheels are that the 'crap' wheels will go out of true and round as well as break spokes throughout its life, as opposed to a 'good' wheel which will offer none of that until the end of its life.

I think it's a typo, he meant 57cm, unless he's 7 foot tall. BTW, your bike looks great, regardless of how much it weighs or that it does not sport Phils.

you have got to be correct

and thank you, i grew up road riding so a conversion was only natural. i hope to get it to a track (if they let me on) but the closest one in 5 hours away.

Arent all formulas sealed? The windsor stock wheelset If you are referring to the stock wheelset that came with your windsor, I have basically the same on my stock kilo (soon to be replaced) and I agree, they spin so strenuously. Even after I carefully overhauled the bearings and adjusted the cones, they lose momentum so much faster than my friend's sealed formulas.

edit: This thread is kinda pointless. Phil wood hubs are pricey because they are bombproof with the most clearly well thought-out design. If you buy wheelsets without plans for later reusing the hubs for different wheel builds, just get formulas or surlys. But if you are interested in rebuilding different wheels and keeping your hubs indefinitely its probably a good idea to invest in phils. I agree with comments that a common hipster rider will not be bothered by the sealed bearing difference between formulas and phil woods while riding.

Yeah yeah yeah, now test the coasting of the entire bike and see what happens. Tires make a helluva lot more difference than hubs. If you do find a big difference between your hubs, you need to learn how to adjust them properly. ;D

Per the BD site - hub spec for The Hour: Formula TrackSpec Black Anodized Aluminum, High Flange, sealed cage ball bearings.

I'm going to make my formula hub on my pista out perform a phil hub come spring. Someone is going to put ceramic bearings in.

same ol' Phil love/hate...tangent time!

Your Sig=Stealth hub, runnin' them or not?

On order for a project later this year.

I've been running a pair of Phil's hubs on my road bike since 1976. The still spin oh-so-smoothly.

Xlnt! BMX or Other_______?

You guys have remember that here in the SSFG forum the members have VASTLY different bike budgets. For a particular part, a fair price for one guy is outrageous to the next. I think that's where the divide begins.

Also, some don't see bike parts as an investment that will last for years.

First used Phil hubs (and BB and pedals) on our custom Assenmacher tandem in 1977.
Put 64,000 miles on that bike and sold it . . . yup, the hubs, bbs and pedals were still going great!
Quality built American product.

You're clueless.
My formula and surly hubs make me go exactly as fast as Phil Wood hubs would. They don't fall apart, they spin very smoothly. I don't plan on rebuilding them an infinate number of times but I am certain they will last me as long as I need them to and beyond. Phil Wood hubs may be superior but in ways that are completely beyond necessity. I could afford Phils if I wanted them, but considering I could by 5-6 pairs of other hubs for the cost of a single pair of Phil Woods that will do the exact same job, there is simply no way to justify the cost from a performance standpoint.

You know why I like you mihlbach? You know the difference between your and you're.

no typo, brother

I can swap the wheels and know exactly what to expect.

Phil Hubs are pricey, but very good quality and they certainly are not ugly for sure. They seem to have that pop that no other hubs have when the sun hits them just right, lol.

Holy inseam, Batman!

Mechanically Phil's are some of the best. Aesthetically they are a little clumsy. They remind me of Chris King headsets. I can't imagine there is a better American made hub out there, and they come in different colors! I have often looked into buying a set, though just can't do it.