Which frame for a big tour?
#26
King of the Hipsters
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 2
From: Bend, Oregon
Bikes: Realm Cycles Custom
Regarding my reference to "agility:"
I hear words to this effect every now and then.
Given the OP's weight of 140 lbs, I guessed a frame size of 56 cm and I assigned a tire size of 32 mm.
Plugging the geometry of the respective frames, with 32 mm tires, into the various trail and flop calculators I use, I found that the Cross Check has a trail of 61 mm and a flop of 18 mm; and, in comparison, the Surly Steamroller has a trail of 57 mm and a flop of 16 mm.
For those not familiar with trail and flop, the bicycle industry considers a trail range from 50 mm to 70 mm the norm, with 50 mm as quick and 70 mm as slow.
I have three fixed gear bikes that range from 59 mm to 67 mm in trail, and they all feel good.
The so-called quick bikes handle much better at lower speeds, and the so-slow bike does OK at lower speeds but handles unexpected wheel-deflecting bumps better than the quicker bikes; meaning, I don't feel as much handlebar twist when I hit something with the "slow" bike.
Given that I ride mostly in the 15 mph range, the quicker bikes feel "just right" to me, but I wouldn't want to ride them on a downhill at 35 mph.
For those who want to know, flop refers to the tendency of a turning bike to "fall" into the turn, remain neutral, or "climb" in the turn.
In the case of the Cross Check and the Surly Steamroller, not enough differences exist in the trail and flop numbers to matter, except to the extent that both bikes look like they will handle better at lower speeds than at higher speeds.
Agility doesn't mean "twitchiness," nor "squirreliness," but, rather, means agility.
If you live in the 15 mph range, agility pays off as long as it doesn't include instability.
Instability, in this usage, means the tendency for a divergence to increase, as one might see with a high flop number (once it starts to turn, it wants to turn more, and especially at low speeds).
=====
I think too much gear on the body represents a bad thing.
I also find a low mass bike more pleasant to ride.
I think I would experiment with distribution, with water bottles on the frame, solid items on the saddle rack, and soft items on my body.
By the way, I love the picture of the Steamroller posted by gmacmt.
Yes, but the misery happens at a certain high speed that I don't see that often on my fixed gear bikes.
Granted, sometimes I think about putting a front fender back on my weather bike, but not often enough to do it.
How much rain does gmacmt expect to see at the time of his ride?
We have a very wet early spring here in the Northwest, and then it dries up starting in May.
That makes sense, and seems obvious now that you've shared it.
The various patagonia micropuff synthetic down jackets I could find on line looked very suitable for your use.
Thanks for sharing all of this good information.
Originally Posted by Mos6502
Which is basically unnecessary, even unwanted for touring.
Given the OP's weight of 140 lbs, I guessed a frame size of 56 cm and I assigned a tire size of 32 mm.
Plugging the geometry of the respective frames, with 32 mm tires, into the various trail and flop calculators I use, I found that the Cross Check has a trail of 61 mm and a flop of 18 mm; and, in comparison, the Surly Steamroller has a trail of 57 mm and a flop of 16 mm.
For those not familiar with trail and flop, the bicycle industry considers a trail range from 50 mm to 70 mm the norm, with 50 mm as quick and 70 mm as slow.
I have three fixed gear bikes that range from 59 mm to 67 mm in trail, and they all feel good.
The so-called quick bikes handle much better at lower speeds, and the so-slow bike does OK at lower speeds but handles unexpected wheel-deflecting bumps better than the quicker bikes; meaning, I don't feel as much handlebar twist when I hit something with the "slow" bike.
Given that I ride mostly in the 15 mph range, the quicker bikes feel "just right" to me, but I wouldn't want to ride them on a downhill at 35 mph.
For those who want to know, flop refers to the tendency of a turning bike to "fall" into the turn, remain neutral, or "climb" in the turn.
In the case of the Cross Check and the Surly Steamroller, not enough differences exist in the trail and flop numbers to matter, except to the extent that both bikes look like they will handle better at lower speeds than at higher speeds.
Agility doesn't mean "twitchiness," nor "squirreliness," but, rather, means agility.
If you live in the 15 mph range, agility pays off as long as it doesn't include instability.
Instability, in this usage, means the tendency for a divergence to increase, as one might see with a high flop number (once it starts to turn, it wants to turn more, and especially at low speeds).
=====
Originally Posted by gmacmt
I was always taught that gear on the body was a bad idea. Although a light backpack that distrubutes the weight well could compliment a small saddlebag.
I also find a low mass bike more pleasant to ride.
I think I would experiment with distribution, with water bottles on the frame, solid items on the saddle rack, and soft items on my body.
By the way, I love the picture of the Steamroller posted by gmacmt.
Originally Posted by gmacmt
Downhill in the rain without a front fender is a miserable experience.
Granted, sometimes I think about putting a front fender back on my weather bike, but not often enough to do it.
How much rain does gmacmt expect to see at the time of his ride?
We have a very wet early spring here in the Northwest, and then it dries up starting in May.
Originally Posted by gmacmt
...I was able to simply use a sleeping bag liner (cotton I think) and wear a my down tucked into my pants with a hat, fleece gloves and dry socks...
The various patagonia micropuff synthetic down jackets I could find on line looked very suitable for your use.
Thanks for sharing all of this good information.
#27
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Ken, the patagonia puff that is like a 1/3 zip pullover and has no pockets (aside from one chest pocket) is what I use. Super light. Great layer. This one... https://www.travelgearblog.com/archiv...-pullover.html
And as far as weather, I hear it can be really variable up north. I am not sure if I am going to ride the pacific coast or if I will ride more inland continental divide-ish. (Rockies get frequent afternoon storms in the late summer).
Last edited by gmacmt; 02-23-10 at 04:38 PM. Reason: e
#28
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
From: Montreal Quebec, Plateau
Bikes: 91 bridgestone rb-2, Univega viva sport, 04 masi Nouva Strada,Dave Scott Ironman, Changes like every month
I think I will be able to pack enough raw foods from stop to stop, but I am not entirely sure what route I am going to take. I have seen some trip reports of coastal routes that seem less rural, but involve a few ferry rides. Other than that, I might just find a way to temporarily carry a few loaves of bread and PB&J until I reach a point where services are more frequent. Truck stop surfing might be an exciting way to go though!
Ken, the patagonia puff that is like a 1/3 zip pullover and has no pockets (aside from one chest pocket) is what I use. Super light. Great layer. This one... https://www.travelgearblog.com/archiv...-pullover.html
And as far as weather, I hear it can be really variable up north. I am not sure if I am going to ride the pacific coast or if I will ride more inland continental divide-ish. (Rockies get frequent afternoon storms in the late summer).
Ken, the patagonia puff that is like a 1/3 zip pullover and has no pockets (aside from one chest pocket) is what I use. Super light. Great layer. This one... https://www.travelgearblog.com/archiv...-pullover.html
And as far as weather, I hear it can be really variable up north. I am not sure if I am going to ride the pacific coast or if I will ride more inland continental divide-ish. (Rockies get frequent afternoon storms in the late summer).
A quick search and I found most of the online map services couldn't find routes between several towns in AK/BC, (example Juneau to terrace BC, etc etc). There also didn't appear to be much along the coast EXCEPT for ferry routes.
The Alaska highway seems promising.
https://web.archive.org/web/200709291...ingfacts.shtml
If it were me I wouldn't cheap out on anything with this bike, there won't be parts.
#29
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,744
Likes: 1
From: Van BC
Check out this guy's blog. He attempted an ultralight fixed tour much like the one you're planning up through the UK, on a steamroller. He has gear lists etc. He rode with Surly hubs, and the bearings got ****ed up. From hearing so many bad stories to do with surlys bearings, I would choose formulas or maybe phils.
https://www.fearlessgearless.com/2008/07/fixed-across-uk
If you msg me I can give you the name of a dude in Vancouver who rode a brakeless track bike to Mexico.
https://www.fearlessgearless.com/2008/07/fixed-across-uk
If you msg me I can give you the name of a dude in Vancouver who rode a brakeless track bike to Mexico.
Last edited by mander; 02-27-10 at 07:44 PM.
#30
Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Thanks for the beta.
Some things have changed since I last posted. My buddy who I was originally going to ride with blew his ACL, so I am now riding with a different group out of Prudhoe Bay.
The Good: This is going to be really gnarly terrain wise, and it is basically from the top of the north american continent. Plus we are leaving a month earlier, so I will have more time for the trip.
The Bad: Very few services anywhere, at all.
Whats different: Carrying a larger load because of all of this. Thinking a cross-check with a rear pannier setup.
And mander, thanks for the info. I will be building the bike frame up, so I will definitely be using nice components.
Some things have changed since I last posted. My buddy who I was originally going to ride with blew his ACL, so I am now riding with a different group out of Prudhoe Bay.
The Good: This is going to be really gnarly terrain wise, and it is basically from the top of the north american continent. Plus we are leaving a month earlier, so I will have more time for the trip.
The Bad: Very few services anywhere, at all.
Whats different: Carrying a larger load because of all of this. Thinking a cross-check with a rear pannier setup.
And mander, thanks for the info. I will be building the bike frame up, so I will definitely be using nice components.
#31
:)
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,391
Likes: 1
From: duluth
Bikes: '07 Pista, '09 Fantom Cross Uno, '8? Miyata, '67 Stingray, '0? Zoo mod trials, Tallbike, Chopper, '73 Schwinn Collegiate, '67 Triumph Chopper, '69 CB350, '58 BSA Spitfire, '73 CB450
Advise for Canada/AK:
Plan for bugs/mosquitoes.
Be ready for quite long stretches without potable water or any real options for food.
Carry everything you need to service your bike (when I lived in AK, most tourers carried an extra tire along with plenty of tubes, extra chain, etc.).
Expect the unexpected, little things like an extra track nut could save the day when you strip one out a hundred miles from the nearest town in either direction (and neither has a bike shop, or a decent hardware store).
Plan for bugs/mosquitoes.
Be ready for quite long stretches without potable water or any real options for food.
Carry everything you need to service your bike (when I lived in AK, most tourers carried an extra tire along with plenty of tubes, extra chain, etc.).
Expect the unexpected, little things like an extra track nut could save the day when you strip one out a hundred miles from the nearest town in either direction (and neither has a bike shop, or a decent hardware store).
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