That does look hanky but actually, the 2007 model may have used a Cane Creek compatible integrated headset and not a Zero-Stack like the current frames. You may want to contact Leader to be sure.

Will do, thanks. Knew there would be some trouble with an older frame, gah. Upgrades incoming!

Scrod,

Why aren't State Bikes good?

Comeon Scrod, inquiring minds want to know. Is their engineering department or their marketing? Is it the decisions made after long lunches or the decisions made before the first coffee of the day?

Sorry mate, this one I just HAD to jump on :)

+1 I've been curious to know this for a while.
I actually just picked one up off ebay because i got it really cheap and wanted a beater bike for beer rides. Haven't received it yet, but would like to know if they're crappy welds and what not.
I got the cheap base model one, but the 6061 basically looks like a more affordable leader complete with better cranks.

State, Pure Fix, etc. bikes do serve a purpose. They get people on bikes inexpensively and most times, those people will eventually end up realizing they want something better and ultimately be riding a higher-quality bike with better parts if they stick with riding. While State is making an effort to produce better bikes than many of their competitors at that price point, there are countless reason why my shop would rather not do business with them or promote their products - the majority of which nobody at the consumer level will relate to or care about.

I'm taking the high road here and will opt to not air a bunch of dirty laundry on a public forum regarding State and their practices but I will openly say that Vincent Shim and Unknown Bikes can eat several super-sized bags of greasy dicks. If you're reading this, Vinnie (I know you love lurking), do yourself a favor and don't ever step foot into my shop again.

You don't seem inclined to answer but what's the story with that ^^^?

I'll talk about it all day.

Unknown bikes are complete junk and I've heard first hand from many customers how their "customer service" is horrendous. Vincent Shim is a spineless weasel with no background whatsoever in the bike industry before deciding there was money to be made in the fixed gear market and he very obviously (and shamelessly) rips off other companies' designs.

Judging from how he conducted himself when he came to the shop a few weeks ago (after I told him we weren't interested on the phone), he has absolutely no confidence or pride in what he's selling. He knows his frames are garbage. Watching him leave with his tail between his legs is something I really wish was caught on video.

I've always been kind of confused on how the industry works....We all see a million aluminum tarck frames flooding the market, Leader has been around (I love my 721), now there is unknown, aventon, 17teeth, the list goes on and on.

So my question is, (without trying to ask you to expose too many secrets or step on people's toes), does a company like Leader basically have specs/plans that they send to a shop in Taiwan and that's "their" bike that they truly designed and have rights to, they get welded and sent back to Leader where Leader paints them and what not?
Or is it similar to how the market works with all of the hi-tensile bikes that are all the same (critical, purefix, etc) where the bikes are already made, they order 1000 of them at a time in 10 color combinations, slap a decal on the bike, and sell it at 3x the cost.

I guess I'm basically wondering if there is a huge difference between all of the aluminum bikes or if they're just mass produced and sold to us at a ridiculous markup and none of the companies are really using any integrity. Not asking about any one company in particular, just wanted to know if the industry standard was to **** customers with low quality in several colorways.

Also please tell me you had a good play on words and called him Vincent Sham as he left your shop??

I wish I had. :lol:

With Leader, their designs are their own. Frames are manufactured and painted at the factory, then shipped to Leader's warehouse. Without going into too much detail, there have been instances in the past where factories would underhandedly sell a specific company's designs, tubing, construction methods, etc. to other brands, resulting in a sea of copycat frames - which is most likely one of the main reasons a company like Leader will make subtle changes to their frames with each production run.

That makes sense.

So in some of those instances I suppose the frame quality could be very close to the "good" brands, it's just more of an ethics issue as to why you would chose to not deal with those companies? (Totally agree in that case.)

Also, I've seen some companies just clearly settle for inexepensive materials, like all of the broken forks coming from a company that makes aero frames.

Thanks for the insight on the bike industry, I think it's pretty interesting.

Kudos!

Ethics do come into play but when talking about the frames themselves, even if the same tubing and construction methods are being used, that doesn't necessarily mean the off-brand company will employ the same QC standards and warranty against defects as a company like Leader.

As a sidenote, I recently had a customer's Aventon come into the shop with rear dropouts spaced at 128mm.

Now THAT is what I call quality.

My Kilo WT was almost that bad at 125mm, but being steel I was able to cold set it back to about 120mm w/o damaging the frame. I wouldn't even consider doing this with aluminum.

I'm about to change my drive train around and will need a new chain. I ride brakeless and have a constant fear of going down a hill and my chain snapping. Please don't tell me to "get a brake, then". Just want your opinion on a strong, tough chain. Or should I just throw down and go for the super toughness? What's that thing made of anyway? What makes it so badass? Is it loud?

FWIW, the only chain I've ever broken was a Sram PC-1.

The Super Toughness on my Raleigh (paired with a Campy track chainring and EAI Gold Medal cog, mind you) is the most silent drivetrain I've ever ridden in my life. However, there are a lot of variables when it comes to drivetrtain noise.

I'll offer what I know from first hand experience with a number of their frames. None of which were satisfactory.

1. Actual incomplete welds. UGLY to boot.
2. Crooked to the point of visible with naked eye. Bottom bracket 5mm off center to seat tube. Track ends welded in visibly not paralel to one another/tilted causing extreme wheel misalignment. Chain stays leaving the bottom bracket at different vertical angles. Braze ons for racks an bottles severely misaligned.
3. Paint adhesion is the poorest most brittle I've experienced. LARGE drips and runs in paint.
4. Head tube not aligned with seat tube.
5. They flex like a four day over ripe banana in a tub of hot water.

I must be fair though, and acknowledge that their customer service was utter Five Star excellence. No questions asked and free replacements shipped same day. This process was repeated with great courtesy and speed by State numerous times, until I finally gave up.

Thanks for the words.

I'll be riding sugino 75 (probably an FSA ring and a Phil cog). Maybe I should go for a Zen if I really want to go all out.

Thanks squidpuppet. Kind of worried now. I wasn't expecting great quality though. I picked up a wu tang edition for around 300. Just wanted a cheaper steel bike to grab beers on and learn a few tricks. I dont like slamming down failed wheelies on my carbon fork.

Hopefully they've gotten a bit better. Or was your experience recent?

Oof.

Its tacky as hell. I wanted something I could cover in stickers and lock up downtown and not worry about it much.
Thinking about a basket and risers to just have an ugly ride that carries beer.

Ive got my 721 to commute daily with

A wheelie brother. http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smil...orted/rock.gif

I went through that ordeal last fall. I'tll be perfectly fine for what you bought it for. ;)

That'll help hold the paint on. http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smil...ted/jester.gif

Thank you sir!!!

So over a year ago I purchased a 2013 Fuji Feather, I have been riding it non stop and feel that a little upgrading is finally in order. After doing some research it seems like the upgrades most noticeable and beneficial would be too the crankset/chain/cog and the wheelset. I use my bike mainly as a commuter and also as a part time courier, so I'm looking for parts that will stand up to city streets and potholes and not be too flashy as my bike is often locked up outside. Also I'm looking for something that wont be totally out of place if along the road I decide to upgrade frames. For the crank I was looking at something along the lines of the Sram s300, and for wheelset Velocity Deep Vs with Formula hubs. Now my question is, are these parts really going to be a significant upgrade to my current stock wheelset (read somewhere online that the stock rims are comparable to deep v's, no idea if this is true) and cranks or should I hold out and save up for some Phil Wood hubs or something, also I have no brand loyalty and am open for any suggestions for wheelset and crankset combo, I just dont wanna throw all this money down for a marginal performance upgrade and increased theft potential, Thanks Guys!

I don't feel this is a question specifically for me.

I can't realistically tell you which parts will you will find to be the the most substantial "upgrade". My suggestion is to hang out on the forum for a while and do some research.

I was wondering if you would give your blessings or have ever seen a bike with dutch style handlebars (i want to get a pair similar to those on your fuji townie) running brifters facing down in line with the bars. I am poor and don't want to get new levers/shifters. Thank you S!

Sounds like a pretty odd setup.

FWIW, the Nitto B302s aren't like a Dutch handlebar at all. You're better off looking at the Nitto B602 or the Velo Orange Montmartre if you want that classic Dutch look.