photogravity

Jim, I think you hit the nail on the head. It was not my intent to present "a technical treatise" on tandem stability and handling, though I think the review of my bike in BQ makes it clear that this bike is no slouch when it comes to stability, performance and handling - this despite its obvious handicap of additional heft compared to many of the lightweight CF offerings.

DubT

Perfectly said! I agree 100%.

Homeyba

I've ridden my carbon framed (Calfee) bike across the U.S. twice on just about every type of road imaginable. It's quite stable, comfy and fun to ride. Would I prefer your Bilenky? Don't know. I do know if I'm riding 400+/-miles in one day or even 100+ miles a day I definitely wouldn't want that extra 20+lbs to push around. Been there, done that. For a nice afternoon ride with the wife I bet that Bilenky would be pretty nice.

waynesulak

Sometimes it is cool to see what other people want to take on as a challenge. Fixed gear for example. Or for a tandem an eight day tour on a 3 speed 50 lb tandem!



Will von Kaenel invited me to post a picture or two from our recent cycling trip in New Zealand, so here goes. The tandem is a 1937 "Sun" built in Birmingham, England, and sports a 3-speed Cyclo derailleur, drum brakes front and rear integral to the hubs, and a stoker foot pedal to operate the rear brake (in addition to the captain's lever) in case the captain gets distracted. The bike also weighs about 50 lbs., but loaded with all our gear it hardly mattered! We did an unsupported 8-day ride through the Central Otago region of the South Island with nine other cyclists, all members of the Antique Cycle Club of Christchurch. The Sun tandem was the newest bike in the group (!); the others being 1920 or earlier--as you can see from the last photo, which includes the tandem to keep it appropriate to this forum! Also, no one in our group was injured in the Feb. 22 earthquake in Christchurch, but several suffered significant damage to their homes, and we mourn for the huge human toll it caused. Peace and safe riding, Dave Walker & Terry Malouf


Above posted at:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...couples/page23

Carbonfiberboy 

Cool bike! Look at those seatpost angles. I'd be interested in learning the theory behind those. I trust the stoker's pad is New Zealand wool.

Ritterview

What's really cool at that thread, is the tour with the 1895 Victor "Victoria" lady-front, double-steering tandem. No quibbling over how much that weighs! [<-keeping on topic to thread]. An expertly restored and functional >100 years old lady-front tandem, that is my next dream tandem.

waynesulak

A Pederson tandem was on Ebay a while back. That is a cool bike! It is supposed to be light for its time as well. This is a modern manufacture of old design made of steel and painted to look like wood.

Ritterview

So, is the bike you depict a Pederson tandem, or a modern tribute to a Pederson tandem?

Esteban58

so how's that work? If one tries to turn right and the other left, do you end up going straight?

waynesulak

I don't believe that it was an original Pederson. There was a company that made small numbers of tandems in the Pederson design for many years. I believe that it sold frames only that would accept modern gears and brakes.

https://www.pedersenbicycles.com/tandemarticle.htm



Wayne

sixtiescycles

A little context will help explain the fascinating design of this bicycle. Place yourself in 1895 America: pneumatic safety bicycles in general, and tandems in particular, were only recently invented, and numerous novel designs were produced to address the mutual needs of customers, manufacturing capabilities, and marketing. Victor was one of the top American brands at the time, and the "Victoria" tandem was a very expensive bicycle; thus the marketing targeted an upper-crust clientele.

It was also the height of the Victorian era, and social decorum dictated that no proper lady would go out in public without a full-length dress, hence the step-through style frame and skirt guard in front to keep her long skirt out of the chain. Why, though, does the lady sit in front? Social moors at the time also insisted that you'd never have the man preceding the lady, whether as pedestrians or on a bicycle. Plus, women of high social status usually wore large, flamboyand hats in public. Thus, not only is the lady in front but the man's position is high enough that he can see over her hat! But, heaven forbid you relinquish control of the bike to the frail woman, so the steering is connected: the handlebars turn together. Also note the (original) coasting pegs on the front fork so the lady can put her feet up at any time so as to avoid the indignity of breaking a sweat.

In answer to your question, it's all a matter of communication which direction you turn, and when the communication breaks down (!) it comes down to who's stronger. Whilst learning to ride the machine (realize, the it was never rideable in our lifetimes before being restored) in downtown Christchurch before departing on our tour we had a couple humorous incidents--humorous only in that nobody got hurt and the tandem didn't get damaged in the process! We were riding with our group along one of the many busy cycle paths in town, approaching a street crossing with a bollard (post) in the middle of the path on the opposite side of the street. We were approaching at a slight angle--not perpendicular--and traversing the street I said, "Left side," but halfway across I wrestled the (rear) handlebars to steer us around the right side of the post. Terry exclaimed, "I thought you said 'left'!" and I replied, "The other left!" The second incident was a bit more serious and involved a similar street crossing-with-bollards, but in this case the crossing was at a much sharper angle, plus one of our penny farthing-riding friends had stopped to direct traffic on the opposite side, thus blocking the more-direct right-side-of-the-post option. We swung wide to the left to get lined up for the sharp right turn onto the path, and in so doing got the tandem leaning much farther to the right than intended. Heading for the bollard, I realized I was about to slam into it with my right leg, so I lifted up and off the back of the bike and yelled, "She's all yours!" Poor Terry; she careened right off the path and took a good digger into the grass. Fortunately, both bike and lady were essentially unscathed, although to this day you can still see a tiny scrape at the top of the right seat stay where the post took off a little black paint. Come visit us in Boulder and we'll show you the evidence!

I've put thousands of miles on various penny farthings (highwheelers), too, and IMHO the Victoria is a much more difficult machine to handle! As with riding a penny, we walked a number of hills over the course of our eight-day tour in NZ; more so on the downs than the ups--the brakes (front spoon and rear coaster) on the Victoria being meant for nothing more serious than perambulating around a mostly-level park on a warm Sunday afternoon. We've often imagined this same tandem making the rounds in Wash Park in Denver, its original home, back in the Gay Nineties. We ride it occasionally around Boulder, but enjoy it daily as the centerpiece in our living room. Glad you like it, too.

Dave Walker & Terry Malouf

Handifish

This bike weight was with just the way you see it. It lives in Scottsdale Arizona. Loves the weather and so do its riders. The best bike we have ever owned!

Ritterview

Welcome to the BF Tandem Subforum! That Dragonfly makes quite an introduction. Might you tell us more about its origination?

A few questions.

• Does the stoker like the saddle?
• What model and how many mm is the stoker's stem?
• Is that an eccentric cradling the stoker's bottom bracket?
• Any BB30 problems, e.g. creaks, seating?
• Where did the idea for the Cannondale crank come from?

Turbotandem

50# 1963 Huffy Daisy town tandem
40# MT30002 Cyclecross tandem
35# teesdale desert tandem

24# 11oz for the Paketa
That's all in with a lot of added weight already in that total
3 bottle cages, pedals, 44mm straight head tube, Dura Ace Di2, internal battery
two tone paint adds to the weight rather than a bald bike
This is with my "heavy" wheels +- 1,500g (Alchemy hubs, Kinlin rims)
25mm tires
180mm "heavy" 230g stoker stem.
Right side belt allows lighter single bike cranks
The bike could be sub 22# but not with Di2, nor with the deep gearing for the Rocky Mountain, and our other needs for distance racing.
The photos are from a professional shoot, the others are in my garage...

Esteban58

Amazing... And I thought my 1980 Peugeot tandem was old...

Ritterview

Did you catch a weight with this configuration, with two eebrake calipers, sans BB7 and rotor?

PMK

A freakin' stealth tandem! That thing is intimidating as it sits. I we ever encounter it, I hope the owners / riders are fat and unfit. One more example of how and why teams build different bikes with different looks and different missions.

PK

colotandem

I like it!!! But I like that muted black theme...

PMK

I like it too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PK

Turbotandem

The 24# 12 oz picture of the scale in the shop has the rotor and disc brake removed as seen in the background of that picture. The pictures taken outside are with the rotors, can't say that weight. Can't say if the weight in the shop is with the pedals or not.

bikeinxs

Here's a blast from the past. Just weighed the frame all by itself on my Ibis Cousin It (circa 1990) and it comes in at 12.5 lbs. Probably makes it a bit difficult to beat the Dragonfly posted above. Anybody have some other actual frame weights handy for comparison? I did find a posting for a Calfee frame at about 6.7 lbs but haven't seen any numbers for steel or aluminum frames.

jimmuller 

Not a modern frame, but vintage. I weighed our '82 Peugeot frame before installing components. Frame, fork, and eccentric weighed in at 14.5 lbs.

photogravity

All good observations. I was wondering about that myself. It appears your bike is a genuine 24 lbs. and 12 oz.

waynesulak

Santana Arriva size Med (54 cm captain top tube) about 2000 vintage: Frame 11 lbs fork 1080 grams (2.38 lbs). Same frame with the lateral tube removed and some brass added to touch the frame up - about 9 lbs.

Wayne

Turbotandem

Paketa V2r medium is 5.5# frame with painted two tone with 44mm head tube.