front-end geometry
#2
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,107
Likes: 108
From: Upstate South Carolina
Bikes: 1980's Spectrum 10 sp Campagnolo Centaur, 1990 Eddy Merckx 10 sp Campagnolo Centaur, Bushnell Tandem, Co-Motion Speedster Tandem
Some of the custom builders could make a fork in other rakes. The Rodriguez website lists production forks at $225 and custom at $675. I'd think Bilenky Cycle Works would too though they don't have a price listed on the website. You may want to ride some more and see if you work into it. Also make sure that your Stoker is aware that movement causes handling issues up front. I've see post on the forum where others have posted the different brands riding characteristics.
#3
Senior Member


Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,914
Likes: 1,259
About a month ago, we bought a used Burley Duet. After I changed its gearing, it is working out pretty well. However, at low speeds, I have noticed that it is very sensitive to any movement in the handlebars. At higher speeds it is extremely stable, much more so than my Trek road bike. I assume that this is a function of the amount of trail in the front-end geometry.
If I were to change the fork to one with less trail, I would expect less h/s stability, but less sensitive steering when climbing at very low speeds. Like many things, there is a trade-off.
Is my analysis correct? How would I go about finding a fork that would reduce my tendency to weave all over the road at low speeds?
Thanks.
Bob
If I were to change the fork to one with less trail, I would expect less h/s stability, but less sensitive steering when climbing at very low speeds. Like many things, there is a trade-off.
Is my analysis correct? How would I go about finding a fork that would reduce my tendency to weave all over the road at low speeds?
Thanks.
Bob
H
#4
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 4
From: Ft Worth, TX
Bikes: Custom 650B tandem by Bob Brown, 650B tandem converted from Santana Arriva, Santana Noventa, Boulder Bicycle 700C, Gunnar Sport
About a month ago, we bought a used Burley Duet. After I changed its gearing, it is working out pretty well. However, at low speeds, I have noticed that it is very sensitive to any movement in the handlebars. At higher speeds it is extremely stable, much more so than my Trek road bike. I assume that this is a function of the amount of trail in the front-end geometry.
If I were to change the fork to one with less trail, I would expect less h/s stability, but less sensitive steering when climbing at very low speeds. Like many things, there is a trade-off.
Is my analysis correct? How would I go about finding a fork that would reduce my tendency to weave all over the road at low speeds?
Thanks.
Bob
If I were to change the fork to one with less trail, I would expect less h/s stability, but less sensitive steering when climbing at very low speeds. Like many things, there is a trade-off.
Is my analysis correct? How would I go about finding a fork that would reduce my tendency to weave all over the road at low speeds?
Thanks.
Bob
I do not know about the Burly but most major makers use a 73 degree head tube angle. When I bought the fork I owned a Comotion speedster and the substituted fork worked well. Trail went to the low forties. Very stable at high speed and much less flop at very low speed. The only downside is that it takes very little effort to turn the bars and so a light touch is needed. This is with 28-30mm tires. The bike tracks very straight and needs little steering correction at low speed but id you are in the habit of correcting then you end up moving the bars when it is not needed and then you have to move them back. It may take a little getting used to. If you have a long stem and wide bars this will be less of an issue.
Another benefit for me about the lower trail is that it does not feel locked in when cornering at high speeds. Some like the "cornering on rails" feeling of high trial bikes but the low trail really does allow for changing your line in mid corner. That ability is great when faced with an unexpected pot hole mid corner. On the other hand not being locked in means you have to steer actively thru the corner rather than set the bike up entering the corner and just let it roll through. It is a different mind set but once I became used to it I find I can take corners faster and tighter than I could on higher trail bikes.
Overall I loved it and when I sold my Speedster I kept the 60mm fork and moved it over to a Santana. I have now converted the Santana to 650B and the wider tires also reduce the sensitivity at low speeds. If you ride with a light touch on the bars then it should be fine. The nice thing about the fork change is that if you do not like it then you can easily change the fork back.
Last edited by waynesulak; 09-22-13 at 07:10 AM.
#6
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 4
From: Ft Worth, TX
Bikes: Custom 650B tandem by Bob Brown, 650B tandem converted from Santana Arriva, Santana Noventa, Boulder Bicycle 700C, Gunnar Sport
Stem length is a factor in feel. Mine is only 80mm and I use 42cm bars. Both a longer stem and wider bars increase the radius of the circle and therefore the length of arc that your hands move for the same degree of steering.
I think bike fit is very important so my stem length is determined by that. The quick steering is not a big problem for me but I mention it so that readers can have the benefit of what I found.
I think bike fit is very important so my stem length is determined by that. The quick steering is not a big problem for me but I mention it so that readers can have the benefit of what I found.
Last edited by waynesulak; 09-22-13 at 07:56 AM.
#7
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 4
From: Ft Worth, TX
Bikes: Custom 650B tandem by Bob Brown, 650B tandem converted from Santana Arriva, Santana Noventa, Boulder Bicycle 700C, Gunnar Sport
I don't believe that tandems without a stoker can not be expected to handle like a single. Especially if you have a seatbag behind the stoker or a rear rack. You are correct that you use wheel flop when pushing a bike by the seat but once again the much longer wheel base and added weight make it different than a single bike.
Do you know the rake of the current fork? If not try to measure it.
Below mentions a 42mm rake which would make it long trail with the stated 73 degree head tube.
https://www.epinions.com/bike-Bicycle...mba__1998?sb=1
Do you know the rake of the current fork? If not try to measure it.
Below mentions a 42mm rake which would make it long trail with the stated 73 degree head tube.
https://www.epinions.com/bike-Bicycle...mba__1998?sb=1
#9
Hook 'Em Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
From: Austin, Texas
Bikes: Mine: Paul Taylor Custom 66cm, Rivendell custom 68cm, '75 Eisentraut Touring 69cm, 68cm track frame of indeterminate origin, '92 Cannondale M500. Ours: '93 Burley Duet tandem XL. Hers: L Mercier Sora thingy
I rode my Burley to the shop to get new cables without a stoker in the back, about 5 miles each way. It really didn't handle too badly, but the Burley is quite heavy and when you're going up steep hills it feels like someone dropped a big dumbbell in the saddlebag!
#10
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 4
From: Ft Worth, TX
Bikes: Custom 650B tandem by Bob Brown, 650B tandem converted from Santana Arriva, Santana Noventa, Boulder Bicycle 700C, Gunnar Sport
I believe that Burly used thick walled tubing so with a lot of tubing used on a tandem it is heavy. Not all steel tandems are built with that tubing and as a result they ride much differently. I have a steel tandem that has tube walls only 57% as thick as what I think the that Burly has. That is almost a 57% lighter frame in the same size. The wall thickness also effects the feel of the frame.
Still the Burly is a workhorse and you should not have to worry about dents in the top tube.
Still the Burly is a workhorse and you should not have to worry about dents in the top tube.
Last edited by waynesulak; 09-24-13 at 10:31 AM.
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