anyone tried the swift side by side with the b17? I should've done it today, but didn't think of doing it. I did sit on a narrow and standard b17 side by side, and I think the standard b17 is nicer, with more support. But then again, neither were broken in..

also, the shop guy mentioned that the brooks doesn't have the cutout in the middle. neither does it have a very ergonomic shape to it, meaning it will lead to cutting off of circulation in the nether regions on long rides. I've got the romin evo 155, which I find more comfortable than the unbroken brooks for sure. Just wondering whether people have experienced problems like this.

also, how does brooks compare to some of the other vintage style saddles? I still have my vintage from college, and it's pretty comfy and looks ergonomic. looks like one of these

If only they made those vintage san marco saddles as wide enough (155mm unriveted, a riveted model would need to be even wider)

[QUOTE=spectastic;18167907]also, the shop guy mentioned that the brooks doesn't have the cutout in the middle. neither does it have a very ergonomic shape to it, meaning it will lead to cutting off of circulation in the nether regions on long rides. I've got the romin evo 155, which I find more comfortable than the unbroken brooks for sure. Just wondering whether people have experienced problems like this.

also, how does brooks compare to some of the other vintage style saddles? I still have my vintage from college, and it's pretty comfy and looks ergonomic. looks like one of these
[/
QUOTE]

I used several of the "latest, greatest thing" back in the 80's and 90's but ended up back on the Brooks. I've never experienced any of the problems the newer saddles were supposed to solve. In fact, I recently tried a Selle Anatomica with the popular cutouts and suffered a lot of abrasion from the edges of the cutouts during week long tours. Brooks makes models with the popular holes in them, if that makes anybody more secure. Here is my take on the situation from a few years ago.

I have had a standard B17 on my daily driver bike for about 12 years. Just a great saddle and the only one I have ever found truly comfortable. It felt pretty good right off the bat for me even though it was rock hard. I bought a Swift about a month ago for my new bike. It is a small difference over choppy pavement, but I think it will be worth the extra weight on a long day. I think it weighs a pound more. If you have fenders there is no need to worry about rain.

[QUOTE=irwin7638;18167954]That's fine and all and it's great you've found a saddle. But the reality of it is that for a lot of people saddles without cutouts and especially brooks/leather saddles cause some serious junk numbness, which I can tell you is really, really bad. Not to mention that Brooks saddles are really narrow. Other leather saddles are narrower.

Yes. I have Swift on a road bike and a B17 on a tourer. Both are fine. The B17 wouldn't work for me on the road bike .I'd be reasonably happy touring on the Swift, but the B17 is more forgiving.

I do it all the time. I have Pros, a B17N and a Swift. Honestly, I don't notice any difference from one model to the other but then I'm not all that sensitive to saddle differences.

Brooks makes the Imperial line of saddles with cutouts. They were making the Imperial line in the 1890s before the current fad of cutouts.

I would also say that the reality of genital numbness is a problem for some people, not necessarily a lot of people. Personally, if I want to put my equipment to sleep, nothing does a better job of it than a saddle with a cutout. For me, the cutout cuts off blood flow more effectively than a tourniquet would. I've never experienced numbness with a Brooks of any kind, although I haven't tried the Imperials.

+1

On the notion that they are universally considered comfortable...
I know that I hated the one and only Brooks that I have owned. It was just OK when new and got increasingly less comfortable as it broke in.

On the notion that they are used by most tourists...
That has not been my observation.

I am sure that Brooks saddles work great for some people, but my suggestion is to give the saddle that comes with the bike a good chance. I find that my bottom quickly breaks in to most saddles as long as they are not gel or excessively padded. I would happily go coast to coast on any of the saddles that came with my bikes, and have done so on a couple of them including the one that came on a $599 bike.

If I were buying a new saddle I'd buy something a WTB Volt or maybe a Prologo Kappa. I have found both to be very comfortable.

Tried them both. Both make the junk go numb. It's likely the narrow nose Brooks saddles have that pushes inside the sitbones/rami and cuts off circulation. It's nice in terms of thigh clearance but I really hate the feeling of feeling nothing down there...

I'm a Brooks user but not an evangelist. If you don't like 'em, you don't. But the fact that they have a narrow nose can't be the problem unless the wide part of the saddle isn't supporting your sitbones. If it is, and you aren't sliding forward, the nose of the saddle shouldn't be taking your weight and its width shouldn't be material.

Jim - do you ride that saddle when it is wet?

No, not really. It undoubtedly gets a bit wet from sweat, and I do ride a bit in the rain from time to time. My rain jacket has a nice flap to go over the back of the saddle, so the rain doesn't drain onto the saddle. And I don't leave it out uncovered in the rain.

Butchered with self imperial cut, the skirt was punched to lace but not cut down. Some rub on the nose is normal, or at least on all mine that is a spot that is more weathered.

[QUOTE=irwin7638;18167954]
I Own the San Marco Concor Max, I bought back in the day * flatter topped and a bit wider.. but this is a Brooks Topic.

* it was on my bike for the 1988 Europe Tour..

I'll add in my experiences here....
I got obsessed with wanting a Brooks, oh probably close on a year go. I won a B17 Narrow on ebay that the owner tried and didn't feel like breaking in. As soon as I tried it I loved it. It was originally on a rigid mtn bike I was using around town as I contemplated which bike it would go on. It ended up on my '89 Schwinn Prelude - where it was perfect IMO.
A few months go by and I decide to start building up a new commuter, as my current one was really too small for me. I built it up and my B17 went over onto that, where I got to ride it more often. Shortly after, a friend was selling his Brooks Professional. I bought it from him and put it on my Schwinn, but I never really liked that particular saddle. It had the "divots" and I just felt that it pushed me too far forward on the top tube.
For my birthday, the wife got me a Cambium. I put it on my Synapse, and liked it, but not as much as I like the B17N. At least on that bike. I ended up switching, so now the Cambium is on my commuter, and I like the feel of it a lot more there, while I moved the B17N over to my Synapse. Both feel like a perfect fit on each bike.
I sold my Schwinn, Brooks included and got a '79 Raleigh that had the original Brooks Pro, and I like it a whole heck of a lot more than I did the one I had on my Schwinn. Almost 40 years later and it still feels perfect when I sit on it.

I don't agree that Brooks is no longer selling good saddles. I like all 3 of mine a whole lot, and I think if the Pro I bought off a friend didn't have those divots or was on a different bike, I probably would have liked it a whole lot more than I did.

I usually always ride with cycling shorts, unless I am only going 5ish miles or just cruising around the city. I did do a total of 25 miles on my B17 in street clothes just fine with no complaints. I just happen to prefer cycle specific clothing for long rides. This was a case of going to the farmers/street market when the inlaws were visiting and I needed some alone time, so I just biked there instead of trying to squeeze 5 people into a sedan.

I tried a Swift but found it was like a medieval torture device and i couldn't get on with it at all.
I think it was simply too narrow for my large rear.
I have a B17 Special on my bike currently on trial as a few people told me they were as comfortable as my other saddle.
A Flyer Special.
Its lighter than the Flyer but the jury is still out on the comfort stakes due it not yet being broken in.
I thought the Swift was the best looking Brooks saddle but I was very glad to see the back of my one.
Shame as I paid a small fortune for the Ti version at the time.

I don't find Brooks saddles to have particularly narrow noses. They are wider than the Selle Italia Flites I use for mountain biking. I find Brooks are too wide and slick for that application and use plastic saddles...but only Flites.

Don't take this the wrong way but is it the saddle or is it you? But I also wonder if you aren't sitting too heavily in the saddle. I thought about this last night as I was riding home. Through years of practice, I've taught myself to sit very lightly in the saddle. To put the kind of pressure you are talking about on my sitbones/rami, I had to lower my weight onto the saddle and felt like I was about 3/4" of an inch shorter. I could feel the weight on my sitbones as I completely relaxed and actually sat heavily in the saddle and didn't find it a pleasant experience.

I could also feel my abdominals relax as I put more weight on the saddle. Until I did my little experiment last night, I hadn't realized how much I tensed my abdominals and my quads during riding. I always ride with my arms, knees, hands and upper body very loose and relaxed but, apparently, not my core muscles. I also hadn't realized how little contact I have with my saddle even when cruising along and "sitting" in the saddle.

Perhaps it's time for a little experimenting.

I will also echo chasm54 comment. If the Brooks doesn't work for you, it doesn't work. No shame in that. I don't really find that any saddle makes that much of a difference with the exception of highly padded gel saddles and most "junk saver" saddles I've tried. I've had occasion to use a rental bike that was outfitted with one of those and they are the worst thing I've ever seen on a bike.