Read the forums long enough, and all frame materials break. I've see several reports of broken dropouts (alignment issues?), broken bottom brackets (fatigue?), and broken head tubes and head lugs (crash stress?), all with steel bikes.

3 years may be long enough to rule out manufactures defects... or perhaps just long enough for fatigue due to some poor design to catch up.

So you were "adjusting" a loose kickstand, and complaining that it had been overtightened.

Almost all kickstands bolted onto round tubes behind the bottom bracket will crush the tubes. Or, they'll be loose.

It is hard to call it a user error. Manufacturing defect? If a kickstand is intended, they can weld on a 1/2 ounce bolt plate. Or, perhaps kickstands should be designed to be contoured to the tubes, so less crushing, and less twisting.

Actually, the kickstand had been cut too short and clamped way to the crank side, I was trying to salvage some sort of usability out of it by moving it to the left until I could replace it with something more usable. I don't disagree with your assessments of kickstands in general. That said, if one does crush the tubes and the frame subsequently breaks at that weak point, IMO that is not on the manufacturer to replace or fix. It may be something for them to consider in future models or updates, but that is still user error to weaken the frame, and in my mind not manufacturing defect.

[MENTION=426452]Squeezebox[/MENTION]

so...

Given that Commotions cost about 4x the price for Surlys, it is not surprising that they have a better warranty. You get what you pay for. However, I would surmise that most Surly owners never have a warranty issue. It just isn't that common for steel frames to break under normal use.

Do you mean they have a surly attitude?

Ohhow devious they be!