laura_bugg

I am having a really hard time finding a good wheelset for my touring bike. I find good reviews for rims but then I cant find them as wheelsets. Is it expected to just build them yourself? I want something that is durable for a long tour but according to my bike I can only go to 700 x 35c, is that even big enough for touring?
I'm so lost. Some links to good wheelsets would be super helpful!

DEW21

Welcome to the forum Laura. You haven't provided enough info to give a recommendation but you can start here if you want a quality wheel, not sure how much you plan on spending either.
Velocity Wheels - Hand Made in USA

alan s 

laura_bugg

I was hoping around $500. So you think Velocity are good? I've seen some reviews that say they've cracked. Do you think the Dyads are the best?

djb

how about we go back a bit first.
Do you presently own a touring bike, if so, which one?
It it is a stock model, generally the stock wheels will be fine for touring with stuff on the bike, but lets get this question out in the open first.
Also, if you are of average weight and plan to carry an more or less average 30, 40lbs of stuff on your bike, then a reasonably priced set of wheels will work fine.
Oh, 700 or 26in wheels, or something else?

Enquiring minds want to know (and it will make all the diff in the answers that will be helpful)

seeker333

Velocity rims have definitely cracked - at the spoke holes, or brake track / sidewall. This can happen to any rim if enough load applied over enough miles. You can increase likelihood of this type of failure by adding load, riding rough surfaces and/or using large tires at high pressure. I've built several wheelsets with Velocity rims and had generally good results. Velocity rim quality (consistency) has improved since ~2014 after they moved rim manufacturing plant from Australia to JAX, FL.

Dyads are probably no more likely to fail than any other rim; however, Dyads are typically used for heavy bicyclists and/or loaded touring, so their usage increases likelihood of failure.

You can find decent touring-capable wheels for less then $500. Before you begin search you must define brake type and mount type. My guess is you need rim-brake wheels with 135mm QR rear and 100mm QR front.

Most bike shops have a QBP account (Quality Bike is large distributor) and can order 700c 36 hole wheels sold by QBP - here are some examples:

https://www.modernbike.com/s?search=700c+36h+wheel

fietsbob

One thing to bear in mind, from the perspective of the bike shop , a common hub like Shimano, will be serviable in most any shop..

Buying a pre built wheel with common parts from a distributor to a bike shop

can be as good as the new wheels on a new bike,
built, from parts and at a price lower than retail for a hand build.

36 spoke should be adequate..

if you have a misfortune on the road, a wheel to replace it will have a good potential to be another one like that

in a bike shop's inventory ... at least developed countries..

fancy hub may require a longer stay to replace the rim and have shop time available, to do it..

You can just go and if what you have is damaged, cope with buying a new wheel, then.


....

laura_bugg

I have a Trek CrossRip 2 with disc brakes. Its a gravel bike that supposed to support light touring and it comes stock with "Bontrager Tubeless Ready Disc 700c, 32h" which I've been told are skinny road rims that wont support a tour. I am planning a week long tour around up-state new york this summer so it wont be a long tour but I really dont want to have any issues with my rims. I am about 230lbs and will be carrying like 30lbs probably so I want something strong.

djb

thanks for the added info.
First of all, up state NY is very pretty and is a nice place to ride. We are in Montreal and have ridden from Lake George back up to Quebec once--be prepared for a fair amount of climbing though, same in Vermont etc, but pretty nonetheless.

Ive toured on 32h 700 rims and it was ok, but the fact that I weigh only 135-140 is a big factor, so I understand having some concerns, but again, because of the diff in our weights Im not really a good reference.

One other factor to consider is looking into only replacing the rear wheel with a good solid 36 spoke wheel if you will not be putting front panniers on the bike.
No matter though, I would defer to heavier riders advice on wheelsets, and there are numerous riders here who are in that weight range and should be able to give reliable opinions or info.
Being discs, there may be less options for 36h hubs, but I know there are many good ones out there, like Deore XT etc etc, although you will have to look into the specifics of how wide the rear hubs are on your bike just to be certain when you look into options of wheels, not to mention if your bike has thruaxels (or whatever they are) and not quick releases, and making sure they have the same disc mounting system (number or bolts or a single thingee, handy if you ever had to pilfer a disc at one point)

I cant recall teh name right now, but others here have recommended an Oregon wheelbuilding website, with reasonable prices where one can choose all the parts yourself, although it might be more tempting to just purchase from a store, as long as they give teh right info re your bike.

DEW21

I built up a set of Dyad rims with Deore XT Hubs and DT Swiss double butted spokes over the winter and had my LBS true and tension, so far so good with only 200 miles so far. I didn't really save any money ($20) by buying all the components separately but did learn how to lace a wheel and figure spoke length so it was a fun winter project and am really happy with the wheelset.

cyccommute 

You can make a number of assumptions about this bike based on how it is marketed. As a "touring bike" so it's probably going to be beefy enough for the that service. I'm not a fan of 32 hole whelkiest for touring but the wheels will probably work for a tour without too much issue. The fact that the bike comes with 32mm wide tires doesn't necessarily limit it to that width. I suspect, given the size of tires on it, that the rims could easily handle tires from 28mm to nearly 40mm. A 40mm wide tire might not fit in the frame but a 40mm wide tire is perhaps too wide for most applications outside of mountain biking anyway.

Don't get confused by the metric system. A millimeter is a very small division of a meter (1000th, actually). It's 1/32 of an inch. It takes a bunch of them to make much of a difference. A 32mm tire is 1 1/4" wide. I've toured for many years on 1 1/8" to 1 3/8" (28mm to 35mm). Frankly, 35mm is pushing the limit as to the widest I would go.

Also notice something about this sizes: 25mm (1") to 28mm (1 1/8") to 32mm (1 1/4") to 35mm (1 3/8") is only a 1/8" of an inch difference between the tires sizes. 1/8" isn't much. You'd notice a large difference between 25mm to a 35mm but going from 32mm to a 35mm tire is barely noticeable by eye or by ride quality.

Bottom line, unless your frame limits the width of the tire, go with the stock 32mm or with a 35mm, it won't make that much difference.

cyccommute 

Generally speaking, yes, you usually have to build wheels that are outside the "norm" yourself (or have someone build them). Unfortunately, that means even "normal" touring wheels with 36 hole rims usually have to be custom built.

The wheels you have now are a little weak for the long term but they could be made better. Going to a 2.3mm triple butted spoke would greatly increase the durability and strength of the wheel over the generic 2.0mm straight gauge spoke that you currently have. The hubs for your wheels are pretty good...a cartridge bearing hub that requires little to no maintenance...and the rims aren't bad. Ride them for your tour (carry some extra spokes just in case) and contemplate swapping the spokes at some later date.

cyccommute 

Looking at the Trek website, they look like they are just quick release hubs, not though axles. The fork has lawyer lips which is a dead giveaway.

djb

thanks Mr C, didnt look.

re tire widths, using 35mm or even more can have the benefit of being a little easier on the wheelset because a wider tire at lower pressures has more "give" and "suspension" , which means less harsh forces going intothe wheels.
As a counterpoint from my experience, I have toured in Latin America using 2in tires, which on my rims measure out to 45mm, slicks, and for the road conditions I was on sometimes, wider was great and made life easier for my rims (26in wheels) and spokes.
In town, I ride on a couple of bikes, one with 38mm (1.5in) tires and another with 35mm. Both are easier over rough pavement, of which here in Montreal we have a lot of, and both roll along nicely and are not too wide. Given you are heavier than I, at least a 35 will be easier on your wheels, which is a good thing, and like I said, they roll along fine.

I hope others close to your weight can chime in, although do be aware that how you ride makes a diff also, ie not bashing over potholes too fast, or always staying in the seat when going over rough stuff, this all puts more forces into wheels in general.

veganbikes

Properly handbuilt wheels using quality components are generally your best bet for durability. 32 or 36 spokes tends to be the best for touring and heavier loads. Disc brakes won't wear on the rims and you won't need a machined brake track so it will lead to a stronger overall wheel. However plenty of people have toured on rim brakes so run 'em if you got 'em.

Hubs: Phil Wood, White Industries, Chris King and Paul Components make some excellent hubs right here in 'Merica. I am a big fan of White Industries (my road wheels are WI hubs and a new Raleigh build I am working up will also be WI) and my touring wheels are Paul Hubs (though sadly they don't make their cassette disc hubs anymore). Shimano also makes a decent quality loose ball hub in their XT and Ultegra hubs which are well liked by touring cyclists. If you want IGH then Rohloff is the jam, not cheap in any sense of the word, just super high quality and durable as all get up. Schmidt Original Nabendynamo or SON makes an excellent dynamo hub in various configurations that will match up to the finish of your Rolhoff and on the plus side will give you power to power lights or your USB devices. I had said they weren't my thing when I first built up my Co-Motion and after plunging into dynamos on my FG/SS randocross fun time machine I am sold beyond sold and am getting a second and third set for one for my tourer and the other for my hybrid and selling a bunch to customers as well and already thinking of next bikes and planning dynamo compatibility from the get go.

Rims: Velocity Dyad, Atlas or NoBS are popular options for touring bikes and are made in 'Merica. My rims are WTB Frequency i19 CX rims which are tubeless ready so they are generally a stronger rim because of that. However I personally wish I had gone with the wider variants. Astral Rims likely has a great product since they are made by the same company behind Rolf Prima and also made in 'Merica. I have yet to try their stuff but I am interested in trying their Leviathan rims. Sun Ringlé makes popular touring rims at low prices as well. I know some co-workers who swear by Mavic Open Pros as well.

Spokes: I use Sapim spokes for the most part and several co-workers prefer them as well as well as another well known wheel builder I know. However DT Swiss, Wheelsmith and Phil Wood (who make one of the most used and well loved spoke cutting machines out there) make fine spokes as well. Good butted spokes are really what you want and something like the Sapim Strong or DT Swiss Alpine IIIs are good options.

Nipples: I go brass always and typically go with Sapim Secure Lock Polyax but any good locking nipple will do the trick. However a regular brass nipple is not bad either just make sure you don't use some odd nipple with a proprietary wrench.

There are plenty of great wheel builders are out there and some people who do nothing but and some who are known for their wheelbuilding prowess but also do other things. Our shops have a few great wheelbuilders in the midst and maybe your shop might have someone as well if not, Bill Mould, Peter White and Sugar Wheelworks are excellent places to start and they can help with parts selection as well. Quality Bicycle Products AKA QBP has a wheelhouse and they generally turn out some decent custom stuff with any parts from their catalog so talk with your local shop and they can order you some if nothing else. They may not have the prestige of Bill Mould or Peter White but they certainly crank out quite a few wheels that are true and properly tensioned.

Tourist in MSN

I built up three wheels last year with Dyads. Quite happy with them. I build all my own wheels, but I worked in a bike shop years ago. As noted above, the Dyad is not a light weight rim. But at your weight, it might not be a bad idea to ride with them anyway.

On the rear wheel (disc), I used a 36H XT M756 steel axle hub. Works great and was quite affordable.

Front wheel I used 32H rims and hubs, the front wheel does not have as much stress on it as the rear does.

If you anticipate much more touring, would you be interested in a dynohub? If you do not know what that is, there is an alternator in the front hub. That can power lights and it can power a USB charger to charge up battery packs and depending on device, possibly a phone or other such devices. I bought my first dynohub five years ago and was glad I did. But I do enough bike touring that it is worth it to me to be able to charge up batteries while riding.

The reason I mention this is if you upgrade later to a dynohub, that is another wheel, or at least a new hub and new spokes on your old rim. But when going new at this time to upgrade the hub to a dynohub compared to the cost of a regular hub is not very expensive at all. The higher costs come in with the USB charger or for higher end lighting.

But if your tours are short or if you do not anticipate much touring, then the costs for USB charger and lighting add up to the point that it is probably not worth it, a big Li Ion battery pack could be a better option for short tours or for not much touring.

cyccommute 

While I agree with you on hubs, the Bontragers on this bike aren't a bad hub to reuse for a future wheel build. They have cartridge bearings as do all of the hubs you've mentioned. They aren't made in the US but they are still worth using for a rebuild.

I'm mostly "meh" about Shimano hubs. They are okay and there's nothing really wrong with them but there's nothing terribly special about them either. If you are going to buy a machine built wheel, the Shimano ones are probably the way to go but if you are going for something special, spend the money on, well, something special.

Without getting too far into the weeds, there's really no need for super heavy rims on a touring bike. The Velocity rims are okay but the real diamond in the Velocity line is the A23 and, most especially, the A23OC. The off center rim allows for more even spoke tension between the drive and nondrive side. Add in triple butted spokes and you end up with a superbly strong wheel without being unnecessarily heavy.

I wouldn't suggest avoiding spoke nipples just because of the spoke wrench needed. Splined spoke nipples are vastly superior to square brass ones as the nipple can't round when the spoke tension is high. I would never use an aluminum square nipple for obvious reasons but an aluminum splined nipple is far better. All my wheels have splined spokes now. Yes, they require a special wrench but all you have to do it carry that wrench. It doesn't weigh much.

I wish the QBP program was better known. If you are going to have wheels built with those Shimano parts, they are very reasonable. You can even spec the wheels with DT Alpine III which QBP is selling now in bulk. For your own projects, you can get black Alpine III for about $1.50 each. If you want silver ones, you can always go to Rose Bikes where you can get silver ones for about $0.50 each or black ones for about $0.60 each. Freight adds quite a bit to the price, however.

Clyde1820

Laura, I've got a set of Velocity Dyad 36H rims that have been bomb-proof, so far. As a heavier rider, I've loaded up the bike with about as much overall weight as you're looking to do. I'd highly recommend them.

Got them on Ebay through a vendor named Storm Mountain Cyclery. (Though, there are several vendors on EB that create wheelsets of this same sort.)

I'm much impressed by the Velocity Dyad for up to about 300lbs total load (bike + rider + gear), over city streets and less-improved roadways.

Examples:

• Velocity Dyad Shimano T670-S 36 Hole Touring-Commuting Wheelset Black @ Ebay -- $238 + shpg.
• Velocity A23 Shimano 105 5800 36h Gravel Road Cyclocross Bike Wheelset Wheels @ Ebay -- $259 + shpg.

fietsbob

Several Wholesalers , like QBP, build wheels from any thing they have in the warehouse, ,
and ship it to your local shop, when done.

...

veganbikes

I am sure you could reuse Bontragers. I didn't know those were needing to be reused but for me unless it was from Keith I am less interested. Bontrager before Trek is what I can get behind.

A good durable rim is always handy for a long term handbuilt wheelset. There is lighter options on the market and with today's tubeless technology you can get a strong rim with less weight but if durability is concerned a little extra weight never hurt nobody.

You could carry the tool for the proprietary nipples but I think stuff like that for touring isn't as good. Splines are a great idea and if everyone was on that bandwagon it would be excellent but we aren't yet.

Aluminum nipples are fine for a lightweight wheel build for racing and things like that but I wouldn't want to use it on anything else neither would any of the folks who have built wheels for me and many many many others. Brass works just fine and has worked just fine for a long time, why fix what ain't broken.

If you are a QBP addict like me you know all the fun stuff. They should be used more, they make an excellent product and very easily customizable. Though you cannot add it to your normal shop order so that is sometimes a pain. The idea you can pick from anything in the catalog is quite nice and gives you a ton of great options especially for those oddity wheels.

mstateglfr 

I will keep it short since so many posts above are loooong. Both wheelsets have 32 butted spokes, quality hubs, and a great rim thats 23mm wide externally.

H Plus Son Archetype Road CX Disc Wheelset SRAM 900 Hubs [741171] - $389.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike

H Plus Son Archetype Shimano RS505 Road Disc Brake Hubs Wheelset [740813] - $200.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike

cyccommute 

A good hub is still a good hub. We are far too eager to just throw out the old to buy new. I know that I suggest just buying cheap wheels if you are just going to use the same components as a cheap wheel to build one but these hubs are worth keeping. No they aren't the same as the boutique hubs you've mentioned but they don't have the same price tag either.

Durable in what terms? A heavier rim is just that...heavier. It doesn't mean that it stands up to much more than a lighter rim. It's only slightly less prone to cracking and the thickness differences are minimal at best. Based on the volume of aluminum used, a "heavier, thicker" rim is usually only about the thickness of aluminum foil thicker (I've done the math elsewhere). Since the material is aluminum and the shape of the rim isn't round, that doesn't add much to to the durability.

As for tubeless rims weighing less and being stronger, I doubt that claim. There isn't anything inherently different between a tubeless ready rim and a "regular" rim. In fact, most rim can be made tubeless.

Why don't you think they are good for touring? If you are carrying the tool, you can remove the spoke if needed. And you aren't likely to lose the spoke in the event of breaking a spoke. Even if you did lose the spoke, you can always replace it with a square one.

Square aluminum nipples are a dumb idea in my opinion. They are too light for the duty and they are too soft. But brass isn't all that wonderful either. It's only slightly harder than aluminum and has a tendency to round off at higher spoke tensions. In other words, I consider square nipples "broke" no matter what material is used. Splines solve all the problems with square spoke nipples. For me, it's not about the weight...you save milligrams by using aluminum...it's about the function. They simply do the same job better.

veganbikes

I wouldn't throw away the hub, it would go in my spare parts collection so I could build some more cool parts bikes or for repairs.

If the rim is designed to carry bigger loads and has double or triple walls or can take abuse a little better it generally would be better for touring. Yes you can tour on probably any rim and make it work and rim technology is getting better but some rims have long proven themselves for touring and taking abuse. Weight is not really the factor but if something does weigh a bit more that is not always a bad thing.

Splines are a fine idea but if they aren't going to be adopted then they aren't going to be as handy! I haven't really seen any rounded nipples so far, if a wheel is built properly and quality tools and components are used you shouldn't have that problem and really shouldn't need to true them often if at all. If you are sloppy with things that is more likely to happen but that is easily prevented by taking your time which is what you want to do with wheel work anyway. Aluminum does save quite a bit of weight but in the end I don't think they are better and many of my wheel building mechanics would agree.

L134