The plastic hooks aren’t an issue. My daughter has used one for commuting for nearly 20 years now and I’ve used Ortlieb exclusively for road touring since 2003. I’ve done 9 tours that are all 1000+ miles in length and from 4 weeks to 7 weeks of riding. I haven’t broken any of the fittings on my bags. They are very tough.

I haven't had issue with buckles that attach panniers to the rack. I have had some of the plastic buckles break. I've also had more issue with the packer (drawstrings) than the roller versions.

I had a case where I was doored in Arequipa Peru. It split the pannier open. I found a shop that did suitcase repairs and they were able to patch/stitch together in a way that it still works for me now

Perhaps I am being too paranoid and fussy.

Same here, but apparently the newer Ortliebs don't have those.

That's for a full set of 4 Arkels, right?

Unfortunately I simply was unable to accept the mount system on the Ortleib bags as suitable for my needs. The good news is REI happily returned them and I stumbled upon a used set of Jandd Mountain panniers what was an unbelievable price, and I picked them up today. They are older, I'm guessing 20 years of age, however they are in excellent condition. The mounting system is simple and sturdy and the Arkel mount system can easily be installed if I desire at some point. Happy camper.

Only you can decide what you like or need. I'm glad you found something that meets your needs.

You never did mention your unique use case which is more demanding than long distance touring.

Nothing unique about my needs outside of my personal expectations and preference for metal over plastic for the mount system. Sure wish I could see the Arkel bags in person, but from what I can see online, the mount system is superior. The Jandd bags I just picked up easily mount up and are super secure. The bags are going nowhere, don't move around and don't need shims. Again, a superior design.
Keep in mind each individual has their own peculiarities, and mine are lifetime durability and simplicity. FWIW, my car is an 88 Volvo 240, which may help explain things.

We have 2 sets of the drawstring non-PVC type Ortliebs, now 15 years old and many tours. Very faded, but still as waterproof as new. Our prior panniers were not waterproof, we love waterproof. We have never had any issues with the hooks. The plastic male Fastex-like buckles (not Fastex) eventually crack, but I found a cheap supply and easy to replace. If these fail to be waterproof eventually, we would replace with the same thing. My sister has Arkels and likes them very much, but too many zippers for my taste. When we arrive at camp, just prior to putting on the fly, everything from the rear panniers gets dumped in the tent, so pannier compartments not needed.

You’re not going to believe this…

I’m currently on an urban safari before the storms hit. I stop for a shade break and notice this:


I’m supposed to leave for a tour on Thursday morning. Ugh!

I generally prefer metal over plastic for weight bearing items too, but I am really quite happy with the upper Ortlieb hooks. I have never heard of them failing and I like the way that they clasp around the rack bar so that they can't come off.

A friend of mine has had an Arkel front pannier come off twice, but that was on two cross country tours, so that was several months between times that the pannier fell off. And maybe it was user error those two times when the pannier came off? I think his Arkels are about 20 years old now, I do not know if they use the same brackets now as before.

He always used the rain covers, even on dry days. Photo below is eight years old.



That said, some people have had the Ortlieb inserts in the upper hooks fall out after a lot of use because the hooks have deformed slightly. Since I do not use the inserts, not an issue for me.

For my front Ortliebs, I fabricated my own lower hook out of 3/4 X 1/8 inch aluminum bar to use on Tubus Tara rack. And stretched some inner tube rubber over it to prevent the metal from damaging anything. Photo below has bad lighting but you can see it. The Tara has a larger than average tube and the regular Ortlieb hook did not work so well on the Tara when I also have that plastic hose over the rack tubing to prevent chafing.



But my other two touring bikes do not use the Tara, they use normal size tubing in their racks and the Ortlieb lower hook is used on those racks.

Say no more.

At one time I had three pair of Axiom panniers that weren't waterproof and required water resistant covers and that could be a real hassle at times taking them on and off and/or another hoop to jump through if you wanted something out your bag and the covers were on.

That is helpful. It’s well known that the Ortlieb mounting system is the industry standard for reliability and durability however, if you’d like to satisfy your unfounded preferences with a metal mounting system, then good for you. The fact that Ortlieb mounting system is also incredibly convenient being able to mount and remove the panniers making it a single-handed operation is fantastic. Finally there’s no way I would purchase a non-waterproof panniers for any use other than perhaps a grocery hauler because there’s nothing more frustrating when on a tour than to have non-waterproof panniers.

To illustrate what you say about the mounting system, I’m certain I damaged the bag pictured above while wrestling the bike up a long, steep flight of stairs at a train station a couple of weeks ago. (The elevator was out of service.). I had to tilt the bike to the left. The left rear bag, pictured above, kept getting snagged on the steps. (Add to that a few later shopping trips carrying, among other things, the gray U-lock you see.). Notice that the fifteen year old seam failed, but the same aged mounting system was not damaged at all, and the bag never came off.

And my first set of bags were from Robert Beckman. While water resistant, rain covers were necessary in consistent and/or heavy rain. I didn’t look forward to having to use them in case I needed something while they were on.

No question waterproof panniers are the king of convenience. Originally my thinking was that I needed them based on the hundreds of comments I came across while researching panniers. Since I use plastic bags and waterproof stuff sacks for organizational purposes, waterproof panniers are not a necessity and I am willing to compromise convenience for peace of mind.

I too use plastic bags and dry sacks, but the reason I put things in those bags is not for extra protection from the water while they are in the panniers, but for those moments when I have to take something out of the panniers while it's still raining.
Also, imagine the situation where it's raining and you have just set up your tent, standing in front of it (or entered the room) with panniers in your hands, and now: You either wipe off excessive water on the outside of each pannier and then throw it inside the tent because it is completely dry inside, or you open each pannier and take out one plastic bag after another and wipe every single one because there is water in the panniers.

I don't have Ortliebs, but would say that not having waterproof panniers is a major inconvenience rather than that having them is a convenience. Of course, it is all a matter of personal preference, types of rides and weather we ride in, so what is important is to get what does the job well and what does not put us in inconvenient situations.

Lower hook: The blog crazyguyonabike, IIRC, uses Ortlieb, had some problem with the lower hooks that I cannot recall, instead uses a horizontal strap encircling both rear panniers to hold them inboard. And I think he also runs straps going diagonally over the lower corners to support some of the weight, so not all of the weight on the top rack jaws. This is all on a Bike Friday 20"/406 wheel bike, so not sure how this translates to bigger wheel bikes.

When I last toured decades ago, I had typical panniers and everything inside got soaked when it rained. If I ever tour again, it'll be the dry-bag style like Ortlieb or others.

As my townie, typical fabric panniers are fine for shopping and other errands.

I try to put everything I might need during the day in my handlebar bag, which does mean a rather large handlebar bag. Spare tubes instead in a small bag on the frame.

But rain gear instead of being in the handlebar bag is strapped on top of my front panniers. Very assessable.

When that goal is not practical, then something that I might want goes in the racktop bag, not a pannier. Less than once a week I might have to stop and dig something out of a pannier when I pack this way. A couple times a week I might get some food out of the rack top bag during a daily ride.



The trip in the photo above was warm enough I never wore rain pants, trip below rain pants were also strapped on top of a front pannier. In the photos, rain jacket is red, black rain pants (plus the obligatory ankle straps), shoe covers are rolled up with the rain pants.



I also have some Carradry panniers, but usually use the Ortliebs shown above. I can't strap rain gear on the Carradry panniers, so the rain gear goes into the front panniers on top of everything else.

That handlebar bag is not even close to being waterproof, I have to put a cover over that. And the waterproof seat cover is in the handlebar bag.

If I have some damp clothing that I do not want to put in the waterproof panniers or rack top bag, if I think that it will not rain that day then that damp clothing is strapped on top of front panners too. Sometimes I use a mesh bag for the damp clothing, sometimes I just fold it up in a way that it won't come loose.

My first pair of Ortlieb Backrollers were black. And in the hot sun everything in the bags got pretty warm. After my first tour, sold those to a co-worker that wanted some Ortliebs for commuting. For my second tour bought the yellow ones, that was 15 years ago. Fortunately I only had bought the Backrollers in black, so only took a financial loss on one pair.

Unfortunately, there is no perfect way to pack and do things on tours, at least not for everyone, probably even for anyone - we all have to compromise to an extent, which is again different for pretty much everyone.

I do have a large Ortlieb handlebar bag (the 8 liter one, the biggest one they have I believe), but its contents are more or less always the same, every day of every tour (with very minor differences) - documents and money, phones and chargers, sunscreen and a pack of tissues etc. - it's the stuff I use often and take with me when I leave the bike locked (very rare occurrence, but it happens). The rear left pannier is where I keep everything I might need during the ride (minus food, kitchen and, God forbid, bike parts and special tools) and doubt there has been a touring day when that pannier wasn't opened at least once. For me, it's the most logical place to hold things I might need - it's right there when I get off the bike.

I came back from a tour a month ago and a couple of days before its end I was caught in a very heavy rain, a downpour with large hail, on top of a mountain with no trees to hide. I had to stop on the side of the road and there was no way to avoid the rain getting inside whatever pannier or bag I opened (rear left). Had my panniers not been waterproof, ughhh.... it would have been bad, very bad, regardless of plastic bags and dry sacks inside. Now, I know some people who pack assuming nothing out of the ordinary will happen, and they are often right, but I am closer to the other side of the spectrum.
To make things short (at the end of a long post haha) - I don't know anyone that goes on tours longer than two days who doesn't have waterproof panniers - the risk is just not worth it.

Edit (@ Tourist in MSN). I like your bikes.

I think this is what you are referring to, a very in depth description of his Ortliebs: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/...id=321316&v=SW

Cyclo -

I don't have waterproof panniers - standard Arkels and covers.
Unlike the earlier Arkel guy, I rarely put the covers on.
I keep them in an outside pouch and put them on as needed.

And I've been to Alaska, the Yukon, and the NWT 6 times.
3-month western tours a bunch of times, plus X-USA a half dozen times.
Which adds up to more than 2 days ... ;-)
Generally, I don't ride when it's pouring.
Not fun and more likely drivers can't see you.

I perfectly understand and agree - if you are touring in good weather, it makes no difference whether your gear is waterproof or not, Alaska, Yukon or Sahara desert. Covers will do well in most scenarios.
And since I don't know you, my statement still stands

It is important that nobody forces us into decisions, so we all get what we believe will suit our riding styles and patterns (and wallets). So long as we enjoy, it's all good.

My wife and I experienced 30 days of rain on a 3-month tour. We have been using Ortliebs for 20 years which includes a total of 2 years of actual touring covering 23,000 miles.

We have never had an issue with Ottlueb bags.

We are on a tour now, and will be riding in the rain today

Thanks.