I've owned businesses before and I know what it takes. Grant scrapes by and he does a very nice job and his bikes will be charished for a long time after he's dead and gone.

Some of Rivendells are made by Panasonic? That's good since they were one of the first to use high technology production lines. Japanese bikes were ALWAYS as good or better than American made bikes.

Bridgestone RB-1's and even MB-2's still sell for what they did new - now, all beat up. These bikes WERE NOT that good but everyone loves them because Grant convinced them they were fine. And it isn't as if they aren't GOOD bikes, but they certainly never reached the quality levels of Rivendell.

You don't like his campy style of business. I can understand that but a large number of people find it interesting and I have to say that I do as well. Mind you, I do not go for a lot of his beliefs such as "lycra bad, scratchy wool good" but what the heck. Lots of people prefer wool because it doesn't stink when you have to wear it again the second or third day. Can't do that with most man made fabrics unless you are trying to keep people at a distance.

The higher end Rivendells are made in the USA and in some cases by the premier American maker - Waterford.

Grant indeed does buy some strange parts and makes them available to people. And I happen to like MOST of the parts he specs. I've mounted bar end shifters on several of my non-cross bikes because they're a whole lot cheaper, lighters and no harder to use than brifters and I have the friction shifting option which I've actually used on one occassion when I bent a ring. The Sakae cranks and the like actually have useable ratios. His derailleur selections are practical without being pricey.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions though.

+1 on this. I couldn't have said it better. For someone, such as Bekologist, that hates a company so much he sure does know a lot about them. Bekologist must not ever go into any retailer or do business with anyone except Wal-Mart as this is how small businesses do business.

They HAVE to go through these intermediaries and order small bulk purchases. It does them no good to order 5,000 frames or derailleurs at the beginning of the year from someone and then have them lying around at the end of the year and then become unable to pay bills because they have a million dollars worth of inventory laying around. That would just be plain stupid.

I looked at the soma lugged frames and you can get a frame and fork for about $675, I don't think this includes the headset so there's another $100 with installation, so you're right at the price of a Bleriot which is $750 for frame, fork and headset

I was a bit disturbed by Grant P's open letter about the trouble with the Quickbeam customer, not something that I'd really want to share, but it doesn't detract from my excellent experiences with buying stuff from Rivendell or riding their bikes. Sure there's a lot of West Coast BS they they indulge in, but I generally like their
approach to cycling and the designs that it has produced. I think it goes over the top with products like the Nigel Smyth bags which are just toofancy and seem to be an example of style winning over utility.

If I had to choose one bike to ride for the rest of my life it would be my Quickbeam, very comfortable and riding single speed has taught me that gears changes are and best used sparingly

i never shop at walmart and prefer to toss my money around at small businesses as a matter of course. I know the cheesmonger that sells me cheese, the farmers i buy produce from, the milkmaid i buy dairy products at.

grant's enterprise leaves an unsavory feeling with this member of the proletariat.

Maybe he makes sense with the bourgeois gentilhommes in the bike world, i prefer to avoid such postured pretence.

his vent about a dissatisfied customer in his summer 06 reader further disgusted me. i did pick it up yesterday, so my dislike was fresh....

are stock rivendell framesets really that good to wait four months for? I'd say, emphatically, NO, no off the shelf frame is worth partial payment in advance to help the owner cover his bottom line and a four month wait.

I personally love it when Beke goes off about Rivendell. He's funny.

I guess I'm kind of a fence-sitter on this issue. I happen to agree with Beke in a lot of ways about Grant P and the way he does his business, though I find Grant infinitely better than most business people and marketers I've seen, and I admire him as an ersatz keeper of the flame for products that have a pre-1980s mindset. I would much rather have a thousand Grants in the world selling tried and true works of craft and hand labor (even though he can be kind of a huckster) than the cheap manufactured plastic-pushers of today's big business world.

However, there is a definite J Peterman thing with Rivendell, as Beke has pointed out time and again. I know that marketing is designed to sell things, but I find Riv to be goofy in the way they do it sometimes - they will outright rhapsodize about a Ticonderoga #2 pencil or Lip Ivo lip balm (seriously, not one iota better than ordinary Chapstick - they just like it because it's old and "the original lip balm since 1901," and they don't want it becoming extinct, as far as I can tell), and I think it is kind of silly that otherwise intelligent consumers might be inclined to get caught up in the brainwashing way that Riv hawks certain products.

Again though, they sure do make some very nice bikes and cater to a style of product that - thank God - hasn't yet vanished from the world, and if money grew on trees, I would definitely consider getting one of their customs. At their prices though, if I wanted to pay out the nose I would much rather have someone at Alex Singer make me a boutique bike. We need J Petermans.

i read that you have to be 50 or over to purchase a rivendell!:D :D :D :D

That's why I started this whole thread in the first place -- totally got swooned over by their marketing!! It's effective, in a zany but very confident way. And I'm sure that Rivendell make fantastic bikes, but when it comes to a question of "need" vs. "want", I'll happily save a thousand bucks and buy a LHT.

Wow, Brunop...it's been almost a year. I'm glad you're into recycling, or are you unable to think of anything new to say?

01-20-06, 10:44 AM #15
brunop
hell's angels h/q e3st ny
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: boston area/morningside heights manhattan

i think you have to be 50 or older to ride a rivendell. they check i.d.'s

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

This thread needs a pic in it.


Attachment 33987


Now maybe we can all just go ride our bikes.

Comparing Rivendell to J Perterman is spot on, there is some similarity and its often a a topic of iBOB conversation.

Rivendell's are not race bikes, even the Rambouillet is more of a sport tourer than a road race bike, and they are built for anyone who wants to enjoy their riding rather than hammering at 20 mph plus. So you don't need to be over 50 - just not a racer.

The Rivendell bikes are beautiful and I think well worth the money and the wait, but the LHT will serve you very well and at $400 its great value for money, its got a great touring geometry and the money you save you can spend on a tought set of wheels with Xt, XTR, White Ind, or if you go crazy Phil hubs.

If you are looking for comfort you might consider some wide drop handlebars, the 46cm Nitto Noodle bars are really comfortable, the extra width opens up the chest, not the best aerodynamically but makes for easy
breathing

I think Mark got his answer a long time ago. I am always amazed how these threads get derailed. From should I buy an Atlantis, to bear spray to Riv bashing :D

But since we are on the topic of Rivendel...why hate the man and the company just because they are doing what they want to do, selling what they want to sell, regardless of what's mainstream. Bekeologist, you sound like you have something personal against them. Like anything else, take what you like and leave the rest. They turned me on to wool T-Shirts and that in itself, I am grateful for. Are the bikes good enough to wait 4 months for? Apparently they are because people are waiting. Is a Bilenky, Davidson, Singer worth waiting 6-12 months for?? Same answer. I don't like everything they sell so I don't buy it. Personally l like their oversized saddle bags but... think it's crazy they don't make them with modern fabrics and plastic buckles. Sometimes hey are retro for the sake of being retro...but I digress.

People say you are just paying for a name but you are paying for the name because the name developed a reputation as being high quality (or low quality). What do you think of when you hear Davidson, Bob Jackson, Independent Fab versus Murray or Huffy. Name=High Quality=more $$$. Fortunately companies like SOMA and Surly break the equation but it's not common.

I didn't find the article on the Panasonic all that offensive and learned something from it. He probably should have obtained permission before printing the letters. Personally, I hope I never get that critical about anything. If the writer, built it up and rode the bike, he probably would have loved it rather than just looking at the bike through a microscope.

hey zonk! where ya been duder? but yeah i quote myself quite a bit seein' as how i'm the wittiest dude i know. bar none! hardeeharhar!!!!:eek: :) :eek: :) ;)

Unless the client buys a full page add spreading poison, you have to be a jackass to write a large blog on a customer return. Other than that I don't have a problem with Riv and look forward to doing business with them.

Whatever bike you get it's probably going to get thrashed. So, don't spend any extra on "pretty". It probably won't be pretty when you get back. It may also get destroyed, stolen, or you may have to abandon it. Think about it bouncing around in the back of a pickup truck, stuffed in a trunk, or lashed to a logging truck.
26" wheels are stronger than 700c and you can fit much fatter tires. The fat tires cushion the ride and save wear and tear on you and your equipment. At times they may even be faster than 700c. You don't have to pick your way through rough conditions as much. You ride over things more confidently because you have more confidence in you wheels. Fat tires have more grip so the bike handles and brakes better. Fat tires float over dirt, gravel, and sand better. A 36 spoke 700c wheel is strong but a 36 spoke 26" wheel is even stronger.
If there's a lot of mud disk brakes may be nice. Mud accumulates around cantilevers. If you are constantly in wet conditions cantilever pads can wear out quickly and that awful grinding. I think the Shimano caliper is more robust than the Avid. I've used both and both brake well. I broke an Avid caliper putting on a brake cable. The threaded arm which holds on the caliper lever is made of a fragile cast material. It's easy to crack it if you are not careful and then the caliper lever falls off. Get a frame with both disk brake tabs and cantilever studs, you're ready for anything. Use rims that are compatible with rim brakes, don't use disk specific rims, and use disk brake hubs. Shimano has some new calipers that are compatible with road brake levers. Avid has had these for a while. Install auxiliary cyclocross levers for the really sketchy stuff. Shimano disk hubs use a center lock design making replacement rotors for them less common.
Look for some racks that mount to the cantilever studs. Brake screws are much more robust than water bottle cage screws. I'd bet they would not come loose. I think the skewer through the lower mounts has got to be way stronger than water bottle cage screws screwed into the dropouts. Chromoly racks have got to be stonger than aluminum. Racks that are welded together have no screws to come loose.
You are not going to be doing the fair weather, smooth road, close to civilization sort of touring. Almost any equipment holds up under those conditions and a bike store or help is a reasonable possibility.

Hey, you've got a perfect right not to like the way he does business. He knows that the way he presents his bike business will turn some people off. He's going for a niche market and he's finding it.

I was over there looking around and saw the Homer Hilsen and I've got to tell you that if I was working right now I would have bought it. It was Waterford built and every line was perfect. The paint job was very nice if a bit too conservative for my tastes (I prefer bright BE SEEN colors) and the workmanship was every bit as good as Waterford is famous for.

I won't be wearing baggy shorts, semi-dress shirts or wearing tennis shoes and using clips and straps anytime now or the far distant future. Lycra is good, Coolmax is BETTER, clipless pedals are a God-send that make cycling a lot safer even if you do have to have special shoes. Just use SpDs and touring shoes and you're fine.

And when I tried using those big fat tires they had too much rolling resistance for my tastes. I ride a bit faster perhaps than most of Rivendell's crowd does so I notice what they don't.

But rough camping and touring on a Rivendell is not a bad way to go. And you can sit and look at your bike for hours on end if you read up the last of the books you bring with you.

Of course, if you liked the Rivendells, you could always go dig up a Panasonic Touring deluxe, a Miyata 210,610,or One Thousand, a Specialized Expedition, or something like that. Probably a lot cheaper and just as good... the Japanese had a little "Touring bike" boomlet in the mid eighties, producing a lot of very, very nice bikes that didn't sell real well and can still be found fairly cheap. Well built, durable,lugged steel.

Somewhere in the far North the op is riding a Huffy and shaking his head.

I think Rivendell got so cool that it became uncool. Which kind of makes it cool again. Personally, I just think the bikes are pretty. The prices are out of line, but not THAT out of line considering the options in the US market. If you got the money, for cripes sake spend it like a cowboy and not a Puritan. Buy a horse with some style, whether for big bucks or low.

I know people, not a few, who make $500 payments on interest and a crap car. Or for a wall sized HDTV. Ok, I don't personally know anyone with an HDTV of any size, but I could, SOMEBODY'S buying those things. In the grand scheme of things, a $1400 frame seems considerably less evil than, I dunno, a $20 Britney Spears CD.

Hey PeterPan, I checked out those nice-looking Urbanite bikes on their website. Cheaper than Riv even before the loony conversion, but some of the same ideas, seems like.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Britney SPEARS? And I just ate dinner! Thanks a load. And I do mean LOAD.

Ha! I had an affair with fly fishing and it consumed me to the point that all my bikes wanted a divorce! My girlfriend (also a cyclist) starting referring to herself as a "fishing widow"! I am back in 2007 with a made to measure Waterford on the way and excited about cycling again!

:D

I was interested in a Hilsen, too...but not very fond of the name and the graphics package. Since Riv was taking orders (I hope this doesn't get Bekologist stirred up!) and it would take a while to get built, I gravitated toward the Waterford site and next thing you know, I was calling them. Ended up going to a local dealer for a fitting, and a made to measure RS-22 (and my choice of color) is in the works! This should be the ticket for comfortable centuries and light credit card touring!

Paying and then waiting is not uncommon. If you buy a custom made McHale backpack, sailing rig from Balogh Sails, folding kayak from Folbot, you pay up front and you wait. And wait. And wait. The funny thing is, when you finally get a top of the line product and start using it, you forget about the wait............and the price. I have bought all these listed plus a Santa Cruz Blur mountain bike and a Trek project one road bike and had to wait. And wait. And wait. As you can tell, Rivendell does not have the lock on paying up front or on quality.

I can almost feel your anticipation, It'll be a nice bike. I was looking at the RST-22, the Heron Wayfarer
or Randonneur and the Rivendell Rambouillet when I was looking for a light tourer. I ended up going with the Rambouillet because I already had a Quickbeam and the geometries were close enough for me to be sure that
I'd fit the Rambouillet well and dealing with Rivendell was a known quantity. The frames/forks were all
similar price and I also got a bit of a discount on the Rambouillet and with my 5% annual credit I can get
a nice Nitto rack for it too.

I'll put some 32mm tyres on some Velocity rims, keep the gear down to 25lbs and set off on a few adventures.

Tout Terrain
 

For your adventure, by all means check out Tout Terrain at peterwhitecycles.com.

I've got an RST-22 on order, due to be finished on January 29. The wait is painful, I'm so excited!

I actually do too, and I'm a huge Riv fan. What's pathetic is, I've been a member of BikeForums so long I've noticed there's a pattern to Beke's Rivendell-trolls. Once or twice a winter, I'm assuming because the weather is less conducive to cycling, Beke gets bored and uses mucho hyperbole to diss Grant P-It's probably most entertaining when he goes off about the $100 hatchet-but I digress. I'm fairly certain he doesn't really mean it, I mean, he's obviously taking absolutely everything Peterson says and twisting it into some evil robber baron-internet scam. It's actually pretty funny.

He went off the other day about Riv marking up the goods from their supplier, as if he'd never heard of the LBS or free market capitalism. I guess Grant should send us free merchandise, with free postage, and a check for $100 to congratulate us for our interest in his company. Considering how much he uses the proletarian angle in his Riv-rants, maybe he doesn't think much of free markets? Anyway, it's very entertaining. Take the guy with a grain of salt-it'll thaw out and he'll get to ride again instead of making silly trolls about a small business who've actually done a lot for cycling over the years.