What wheel sets would be considered the lightest and strongest 36h Double Butted 3 Cross for loaded touring. I am having a hard time getting the Dyad rims and had thought about the Synergy Front and Synergy OT rear.

Thoughts?

Yeah,
for loaded touring you don't want a narrow rim. What's the width on
the Synergy? They just might work for you if they aren't as narrow as a typical
roadie rim.

These guys built my last wheels. Good prices and a great quality job. Their Dyads are not only available, they are on sale!

https://www.speedgoat.com/productB.as...t=40&brand=272

I just built a set with Mavic 719 and 105 hubs,so far so good.Was going to use Dyads but I like eyelets in my rims.

There are lots of rims out there that work great. MTB racing/and cross rims rims are lightish and very strong. I think I use the Alex DH22s, they are 22.5mm wide, I wouldn't want anything wider.

I had a 40 hole 4x rear Dyad on a Velocity 9spd free hub and a 36h 4x on velocity hub for the front. ran over a curb straight on while loaded doing less than 5 mph/ 8kph and carried on. After something like 600 miles though the rear rim spread apart to the point that it would no longer pass through the chainstays and now about 1000 miles later the same is happening with the front rim. I was told this was due to riding with my schwalbe Marathon XRs at maximum pressure (85 psi). The impact supposedly amplified the pressure enough to cause a blip in the rim on both sides that gradually spreads 'til the rim is no longer usable. Can't really ride with lower pressure though because of concerns of hitting the rim in a similar impact so FWIW I'm not terribly impressed with Dyads. Sure, we don't run over curbs every day but doing so shouldn't derail your bloody tour for a week while you wait for replacements.

my thoughts are that for LOADED touring you can put a lighter tire on but you cannot put a lighter rim on. A light wheel is nice but if you're carrying a LOAD rim weight isn't as big a factor as the 30lbs on the bike. Do the math, is 100grams on the wheel really going to make as much a difference as 10lbs on the bike?

How loaded is "loaded touring"? Given the V-shaped cross-section of the Dyad, I would expect it to be stronger than the Synergy. Weight-wise, I think the Dyad and Synergy are about the same. The Dyad is slightly wider, so it will accommodate wider tires. IIRC, Peter White recommends the Synergy for light- to moderate touring loads and the Dyad for heavy loads... for whatever that's worth. I've also heard that the Mavic A719 is good for loaded touring, though they're quite a bit heavier than the Dyad and Synergy.

Mavic 719

I'll agree. Sturdy rims. Other thing to keep in mind is that they're readily available. That's important when you're in BFE and need a replacement.

Salsa Delgado, a cross rim that I've been using for the last 12 months. Built up by a shop in Whitefish this wheelset has been tough as nails.

I think there is a really good chance that 100 grams on each wheel is as significant as 10 pounds in the bags. Wheel weight is the biggest performance factor in your bike. That said wheel durability still can't be compromised.

The deep V rims are strong, but that kind of design is mostly needed when low spoke count wheels are used. With 36 or more spokes, rim cross section is not as critical to strength, and other factors that provide strength can be emphasized instead. Some of the classic strong wheels are fairly narrow in width and shallow in depth. The MA2 being the classic example. Velo Orange is introducing an MA2 clone, though how comparable it is remains to be seen.

pretty sure that ones heart, lungs, training and % of muscle to body fat are biggest performance factor. Speaking as someone who used to show up at training rides with light Gucci equipment and got dusted regularly until the motor got stronger. You may perceive the difference in light wheels in an unladen bike but once you start loading it up your ability to climb a mtn at x speed will be primarily a function of total weight and not a few oz on the wheels. Calories required to climb a mtn are figured on total mass, elevation and time. If you put 10lbs on that bike the energy required to climb that mtn will be more than if you put on 4oz on the wheels, spokes, helmet or saddle. Pretty sure if you got your touring bike and put heavy touring wheels that weighed a 1/2 pound more each than light ones and road it up a mountain you'd be a hell of a lot faster than clmbing that mountain with superlight wheels and 20lbs on the bike.

I think you are absolutely correct. I don't know if 100g equates to 10 lbs but a heavier wheel is noticeable whether your bike is loaded or unloaded. If you can reduce wheel weight without compromising durability or piece of mind then you should do it. Just to emphasize the point, I recently purchased some marathon extremes which are 200 plus grams lighter than the XRs. What a difference. All things being equal on the bike, there is no way you couldn't this weight savings.

For what it's worth, I was told by velocity and rivbike not to use the snyergy's for loaded touring. I have heard a lot of mixed reviews on the dyad's. I toured on the aeroheats which are a 26's version of the dyad. They stayed true for a couple of years but the sidewalls wore down incredibly fast and I am fairly obsessive about keeping my pads and rims clean.

+1 for 719s.

You know maybe I am a premature old codger/retrogrouch but when I hear people whining about an extra 100 grams on their wheelsets it makes me think they've either been really lucky touring without wheel problems or they've never had to walk a bike for two days or sleep beside a highway when they couldn't hitch a ride to the next town and all night long loaded logging trucks rumble by mere feet from your head.

Man up and get some beefy wheels, you get used to it. I pull as many miles as ppl on race bike/trailer setups and my bike weighs 100lbs all loaded up.

That's just my 2 cents though, feel free to disagree and do what works for you but in my experience, I've never heard anyone complain that their wheels were too beefy/heavy while on a tour.

In an unloaded bike you can perceive the difference in a second of acceleration but that's not the same thing as X calories to get up the hill at a steady pace at a much lower level of exertion over a 30minutes. Total effort over time is the issue and I'm pretty sure the effort to move 10lbs up a hill is more than the effort to spin 8 extra oz in the wheels.
In racing where a fraction of a second under anerobic efforts will result in a few feet distance it's worth it. I don't see it worth it when thirty pounds are sitting on a dished rear wheel and you can reduce the weight with the tire as you've mentioned. A light tire may get more flats, a light rim will bend.

The range of rim weights isn't that great. What I don't get is why a Synergy isn't recommended for loaded touring but a Dyad that weighs 19g LESS is. Kinda weird.

Nothing weird about it: the Dyad is slightly wider, allowing for larger tires, and has a V-shaped cross-section that is stronger than the Synergy. Weight isn't everything...

Mavic A719s.

I've been happy with Sun's CR series!