I am completely new and have been doing a fair amount of research on all things related to touring recently. I am in the market for a bicycle and something around 1k to 1500 seems reasonable but I am not opposed to spending an extra 50 or 100 here or there for a superior part since I expect the investment to last me years and 10's of thousands of miles...The purpose of my bike will be both for daily commuting and fully loaded long distance tours to see the world

I have not ruled out any bikes but 2 have stood out to me maybe for the simple fact that their names seem to frequently pop up, the trek520 and the Surly Long haul Trucker. I notice the trucker originally comes as just the frame though you can purchase completed bicycles for a little less than the trek520. The Trek520 seems about ready to go aside from swapping for lower gears which can be negotiated prior to purchase and I have read a lot of seat complaints.

but I have several questions. If you build the bike yourself from the frame up will you end up with a superior product for the same/similar price as the trek520? I realize a flaw in this is I have no experience so I don't know what parts I prefer and w/o buying a bike to ride I am not going to gain this experience

-What are all the parts required to build the bicycle when all you have is the frame? their range in price?
-of these parts what are typically more suited styles towards touring? (I realize a lot is personal preference)

It is a drawback that I don't know what I prefer. However, I think building my own bike would be a benefit because I would learn all about the parts of a bike with my purchases and the building process so I would learn fast. It would also help me once I am on the road and have mechanical issues and how to maintain, tune etc. I have not decided to go with this option which is one reason I am posting. Far as the actual building was thinking maybe somebody either from the forum in my area or from a local bike club who is interested in this sort of stuff would help with the build over some beers. I'm sure I could have a bike shop do this but that would eliminate a lot of the learning though it is obviously an option

any links that would send me in the right direction are appreciated

I, personally, don't understand the perpetual appeal of the LHT. My Nashbar touring frame was one-quarter the price and seems to work pretty darn well...

In my experience, this is difficult. Trek buys components by the boat-load and gets very good pricing on them. When you're buying things one or two at a time, you'll end up paying quite a bit more than Trek... and that's assuming you spend quite a bit of time shopping around.

If you don't have a lot of riding experience, you'll save time and money by buying a complete bike.

Here's a quite likely non-complete list:

- frame
- fork
- handlebars
- handlebar tape
- stem
- headset
- seatpost
- seatpost clamp
- wheels (rims + hubs + spokes + nipples)
- tires
- tubes
- brakes (front & rear)
- front derailleur
- rear derailleur
- levers (shift levers, brake levers, or "integrated" shift+brake levers)
- chain
- cassette
- crankset
- pedals
- bottom bracket
- saddle
- cables (brake, shift)

Plus all of the stuff you might need for touring: front rack, rear rack, front pannier, rear panniers, fenders, lights, etc.

Don't forget the specialty tools you might need: pedal wrench, bottom bracket wrench, cassette lockring tool, pump, tire levers, headset press, etc.

Honestly, I don't have time to give price break-downs for all the stuff. Do some Internet searching and I'm sure you'll come up with something...

No doubt you'll learn a lot by building your own bike. If you don't know what you're doing however, you may make mistakes that leave you stranded. And if you're anything like me you'll end up making at least 3 trips to the local/internet bike shop to get parts that you didn't realize you needed. You'll also need to buy some specialty tools that will increase the cost of the build.

Thank you a lot for the reply, much appreciated. I am certainly going to do more research and will look into different products. Very well may buy a complete bike, especially if replies here recommend that

Took me forever to figure out which backpack I wanted to buy and this is far more difficult a decision lol

Building a bike yourself would be much more expensive. If you are very particular about your components, then it makes sense to do it. If there are only a couple of things you want to change, then it would be better to buy the complete bike and the components you want. If you LBS is willing, they might work some trade or swap for you. If not, you could just sell the components on eBay.

If you want the experience of building the bike, just take it apart when you get home and reassemble. Or, some shops might sell you the bike still in the box. Most manufacturers demand that the bike be built, but we've done it for a couple of customers. The LHT's steerer tube comes uncut, I would recommend you have the LBS cut it to size if you want to assemble the bike yourself.

I'm pretty particular about my components. Even then, a complete bike would make more sense to me. There is not much on the LHT that I would swap out. I would swap out the wheels, the saddle and the brake pads. Everything else on it would be ok for me. There are some things on it that would not be my first choice, but they are good enough. Pretty much the same is true for the Trek.

Either of the bikes you named will do the job for you. There are several others. Co Motion Americano is built in US but is a budget buster. The Windsor Tourist @$600 has gotten good reviews on here, as has the Nashbar frame.

A build out, especially for the inexperienced, would likely cost more than a stock tourer unless you really skimped on the frame and parts. Several specialized tools needed and lots and lots of looking for matching components. There seem to be a jillion choices. Not for the faint hearted or mechanically challenged. But, with patience and study, could be a thoroughly satisfying exercise. Or a disaster.

There are a number of operations where it's more economical to have your LBS do the work than to buy the specialized tools necessary to do it yourself. In this vein, I would recommend having your LBS:

- Face and chase the bottom bracket if needed. Most manufacturers do this at the factory, but if you buy a custom frame or a super, super-cheap frame it may be necessary.

- Reaming the seatpost if necessary. Again, most manufacturers will do this at the factory.

- Cutting the fork to length, installing the crown race, and pressing headset cups into the frame (if required). The tools for this stuff aren't that expensive, but if you're not planning to build lots of bikes they're a waste of money. My LBS will do all of this for $20 or $25, IIRC.

The LHT complete is a pretty-solid bike for the price. It's not magic. The new 520 is somewhat different than the old 520 but the 520 has very long history as being well-liked for touring. Seats are a personal thing. It doesn't make sense for bike companies to include an expensive seat for something that the end-user is likely to replace anyway.

Generally, the bicycle companies can get better prices than you can for components. More expensive might not translate to being "better". More expensive also means more expensive to replace (if things wear-out or break).

It's a better approach to buy something decent at a reasonable price and use the thing. It really does not make much sense spending a lot to get the "perfect" first bike since, in a few years, your "perfect" bike won't be the same.

I agree. I hope I didn't give the impression that only the steerer tube should be done at the LBS. What I meant is that on a complete LHT, the crankset, crown race and headset are already installed. Just that it comes with an uncut steerer tube. If a frame only is bought, then it would be a good idea to have an LBS face the different areas and to install the items where specialized tools are needed.

We have a customer that builds (manufacturers) his own frames, about 8 now that I can think of, and he still comes to us to face the bottom bracket and head tube. I can't remember if we press the headset for him or not. Those tools can be made pretty cheap.

If you can always find a used or nos frame real cheap if you look around. I lucked into a near mint 2004 Trek 520 frameset off craigslist for $75. It also came with the stock Bontrager drops and stem that I sold for $30.

I agree with buying older frames/bikes. I have SLLTS and find the older frames are much more comfortable than newer frames. Newer frames in my size have too aggressive geometry for me. I am in the process of getting my Miyata into touring shape. Though I like the older frames, I also like the new components a little more. Well, some newer components. I have decided to make it a nine speed, so I had to cold set the frame to 135, a new rear derailer to handle the 9 speed 34 tooth cassette, a new wheelset and I am thinking about putting new brakes on. Just because I'd much rather deal with threaded posts than the smooth ones. But if I do this, I will need to replace the fork and headset and stem or maybe use the old fork, but have the cantilever posts rebrazed to a wider distance.

If you are new to building it's best to get the LBS to install the headset and bottom bracket crank bearing. Buy the best moving parts you can ie headset, bottom bracket and hubs. here is a "how to" on building a bike

https://tinyurl.com/RR28-bikeassembly

Really the only reason to build out your own frame is to get components that aren't available in the factory build. In that regard one isn't comparing the price of the complete bike to the frame built out, but rather the cost of the complete bike + the change orders compared to the frame built out. On that basis it may not be cheaper to get the complete bike.

Another option if you aren't planing on making a lot of changes is to work with your bike shop to see the cost of making various changes to the complete bike, like swaping out saddles, etc... The last complete bike I bought, not the LHT (wasn't locally sold) I got credits for supplying my own brake and subsituting bar ends for brifters, I got a "free" brooks.

While it is fun to mess around with the bike options, I would recomend taking the complete bike and riding it for a while before deciding on major changes. You may decide to go way up market, and want to sell the LHT, or you may be satisfied with the bike as is. It is possible to do a lot of research and invent a lot of needs based on online chat when the picture will become chrystal clear after the first few thousand miles.

As far as learning bike assembly/repair is concerned, touring is mostly basic maintenance like adjusting brakes and deraileurs (youtube):

https://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

With assembling a bike, you don't learn stuff like replacing drive side spokes, and will have to contend with prep you are never liely to repeat on the road.

Just finished building up a LHT. It took me 14 months to do since I could only buy the parts as money became available. The total came to $2300, $150 of that being labor and another $100 in shipping charges. With that being said, I put on tires I already had and still haven't purchased panniers. This bike is costing way to much.

Building up a frame will certainly be more expensive than a built up bike. I am in the process of finishing up a Nashbar Touring frame build, and it looks like I will be over $750 before I am done. Last spring I picked up a Fuji Touring bike (same as the Windsor Tourist) on closeout that came to under $600 with tax. I had trouble with the wheels and ended up returning that bike, but on reflection I would have been better off keeping it and just swapping out to a better set of wheels. The XT hub/Mavic A119 set that I have on the Nashbar cost me under $200 and are hand built and seem to be rock solid.

If I were in your position I would look for a good used touring or sport touring bike, learn to do some wrenching on it and decide what features are really important to you. For commuter dress a set of fenders, rear rack and cheap set of panniers and you are good to go. You should be able to put such a package together for a couple hundred dollars.

I have built my last 3 bikes, yes they each cost me a bit more than the pre-assembled. But taking the touring bike I am just finishing, building your own gives you quite a bit of freedom in component choice. If I were to take the the pre-assembled bike and swap out the parts I felt were essential to have the price difference would be much closer. But again building my own will cost a bit more.

I just like being able to pick the hubs, spokes, rims, headset, ect, ect, ect. Plus there is a bit of reward knowing the ride between your legs was put together with your own hands. Not to devalue the pre-assembled or LBS assemblies. The guys at the local shops will always get you the best bang for your buck.

For a newbie assembling a bike might not be the best option, but after you know what you like, IMHO, it's the way to go. My first bike was a Bianchi Volpe and I used it to learn about bikes and what set ups suited me. After that I changed a few things on it and now I'm on my fifth bike build.

I build my bikes mostly as I like to have top quality components and those don't come standard on most bikes. I tend to buy 2 or 3 year old components so that I can get the best quality at good prices in places where it matters like hubs. I also have peculiar likes regarding gearing. Building also gives me an intimate knowledge of my bikes so I can handle any roadside fixes. Knowing how to remove your cassette so you can replace a drive side spoke is useful, although on the road I'd use a Fiberflex spoke. I also build just for the fun of it and so that I can ride something a bit out of the ordinary at a good price. My latest build is a De Rosa Neo Primato road bike and obviously it's a bit esoteric as it's an Italian steel frame and uses components you wouldn't generally see on a touring bike, but I've saved $1000 on what I would have paid for a similarly equipped bike from my LBS. I also saved $1000 on my Rambouillet touring bike as I got $500 off the frame as it had a couple of chips in the paint and then bought my components carefully looking for deals on Ultegra level parts.

https://wheelsofchance.org/tag/neo-primato/

Here's an idea. Buy a bike complete so that you won't have to spend a ton of money. Then take it apart and put it back together so you can get some experience with bicycle mechanics.

Building a bike yourself is a labor of love. If you are buying all new components you will end up paying more for the bike than for something stock that is equivalent. On the other hand it is a labor of LOVE. There is a payoff to building your own that makes many people willing to pay a bit more, and take the extra time.

Speedo

Soma Saga? Oh yes, that is very pretty!

Speedo

Honestly, I'd feel free to skimp on the headset and bottom bracket unless you're planning to ride around the world or you spend lots of time riding off-road in wet conditions. I've yet to see a cheap ($20-40) headset or bottom bracket wear out, so spending a lot of money on high-end parts (e.g. Chris King) seems like a waste.

Thanks for all the great information from everybody, much appreciated

I'll continue to weigh my options and try to make a sound decision. I think I'll end up being happy no matter what. Seems the most practical thing for somebody of my knowledge and ability will be to buy a complete bike and just swap out for lower gears at time of purchase and learn from there...

I built up my road bike, a formerly owned fixed gear, and my current commuter (which could also be used as a tourer) from ebay frames and parts. I am unsure if I actually saved money, but feel I gained overall factoring in the education benefits.
- Road frame was several years out of date and going for an unusually reasonable price. Commuter frame was a fair price. Got exactly what I expected in both cases.
- I overpaid for the 1st drivetrain (bought used and had way more wear & tear than I expected). I now watch for a sale on a new group or parts
- I had excellent help from a neighborhood bike nut who helped me with the 1st build. I would not have attempted the build without him. We used a shop for headset and BB installation.
- The commuter was cheaper than new as I held onto usable parts from the road bike as I upgraded and used them for much of the build.
- Patience, sales and closeouts and more patience are your friends. As is qbike.com (on line price comparisons). Ebay auctions can be your enemy, although they do offer entertainment and frustration when it is too dark/cold/wet to ride.
- Too many people on ebay over-estimate what a bike frame or part is worth, what is a reasonable bid (vs. NOS or retail), or the meaning of "almost new".
- Make some purchases at local shops - you want them to be around when you need them.
- Buying new would have been much faster and probably less trouble. I've held off making a full accounting on what I spent on pieces, parts, etc., as I don't really want to know the truth and don't want that info where my wife might find it!

The experience I gained has been invaluable as I can do most of my own maintenance now (have not attempted wheels and hubs yet).

An approach for someone starting out is either get a basic tourer and learn from that what you really want (and are willing to do), or find a bike with an excellent frame and upgrade parts as necessary as they wear out and only if you've decided the bike is a keeper. A bike shop gets a much better deal on a complete bike than most individuals can obtain.

I bought an LHT frame and built it up. Here were my reasons at the time:

• The LHT complete was on the horizon but not available yet and I was in a hurry.
• I was worried that they might cut the steering tube on the complete and I wanted the ability to have it high, due to pain in my hands and wrist on my other bike (which I now know was due to something else.) Pretty foolish because I don't think they cut the steering tube on completes of any size, and mine is a 62cm.
• I wanted the experience of building up a bike myself. I have done a lot of wrenching over the years, but this would take my skills to a new level. (I even built my own wheels.)

The positive results were that I got a good touring bike with a blend of compenents that I feel good about. I learned a lot about working on bikes.

The negatives were that I spent MUCH more than I would if I'd bought the complete, I ended up with wheels that aren't exactly round (though they survived their first tour unscathed and my local guy pronounced them "pretty good for a first attempt, and tour-worthy"), and I also had an issue on my tour due to my own error in assembly. I didn't torque the lock ring that holds the cassette on the rear hub tightly enough, and it came loose. Luckily, I had a Hypercracker. I spent an hour or so by the side of a highway in eastern Washington fixing it - unsuccessfully. I still didn't torque the thing enough. It came loose a second time, and this time I torqued it better. It hasn't come loose yet.

My recommendation, if money is a big factor, would be to buy a complete bike. The manufacturers buy their components in huge lots for low prices. You can't compete with that. You don't really want bargain priced, suspect components from Ebay on your new baby, do you? I didn't, so I only have a couple of Ebay items on mine; the rest were bought brand new.

If you want the experience of building it yourself, great, but know what you're getting yourself into. Not only did I spend a lot on the parts, I also spent a lot of money on tools. I didn't mind; to me a good tool is an investment, but it's a factor to be considered. And after all that work and expense, I think there's a good chance you'll have messed something up, which could be inconvenient, as it was in my case, or expensive - like stripped threads on the frame.

I wouldn't try and argue that the LHT is the best touring bike available, though I would argue that there aren't many bikes that are significantly better. I would argue that it's a really good tourer for a really good price. The Trek 520 is a bike I'd consider. How much more expensive is it? I saw a Cannondale tourer at my LBS this week - the one with curved forks (I'm not sure of the different C'dale models.) It looked beautiful, and I've heard really good things about Cannondale tourers, but they wanted $1800 for it.

There are other worthy tourers - Novara Randonee, Fuji Tourer, Windsor Tourist (I think that's the name), the Thorn, the Americano, Rivendell, Bruce Gordon, Jamis has a good one, and I'm sure there are others I can't recall.

I do plan to ride around the world, eventually WOOT

I just came back from backpacking 6 months in Turkey, Georgia, Armenia and Eastern Europe. While I was gone I met a lot of bikers doing AMAZING trips.

After coming home I still have some money and considered booking it for India and traveling Asia. I know if I do that I would end up gone for at least a year

Instead of going to Asia I decided it would be smarter for me to buy a bike and finish up school. So I am going to start training and this summer I am planning to do the Trans American or as much of it as I can do on my break (about 75 days). Assuming I like it which I am almost certain I will, I'll continue doing big tours around the world. One way or another I have many major world trips ahead of me, and I think a bicycle is one of the best ways to see the world--little background

The LHT has msrp of $1,095 on the Surly website (does not come with pedals)
The Trek520 has msrp of $1,319 on their website

1,800 is starting to get pricey. I could shell it out if convinced there is a big jump in quality and a much better long term investment. However, I know I am going to want/need a lot of accessories that are going to make it really add up (bags, cpu etc. and I'll be in the market for a little bit of camping gear too)