safariofthemind

Anyone using the older 8 x 3 setups out there have problems getting it repaired on the road? Do you carry specific spares (friction shifters for example) just in case?

Just noticing how inexpensive setups can be obtained used around town for 100 to 200 in reasonable shape. Would try to repurpose an older drivetrain to a franken bike for a teen who is starting out touring. Nothing fancy, just cheap to start out with (ie, like a rigid mtb conversion). 350 buck budget.

Sixty Fiver

My touring bike is a 3 by 8 with friction shifters... parts availability is not an issue and when I upgrade my wheel set will run a 3 by 7 drive with a freewheel on custom hubs.

8 speed parts are still readily available as are freewheels and good friction shifters are pretty bulletproof... my derailleurs date to the mid 70's and could be replaced with any classic model with the right capacity as well as any modern derailleurs.

I think that a modern touring bike with a 9 speed system would be more problematic to maintain in remote areas...with a friction system there are a lot of options when it comes to repairs if you are in a pinch whereas finding brifters or indexed bar ends might be a little tougher or require a wait.

Sixty Fiver

PS - My touring bike is a rigid mtb conversion... I have no urge or need to upgrade a thing although I would say it is worth a little more than $350.00.

seat_boy

With a friction 8 speed, there's almost nothing to repair. It's simple to use, sturdy, reliable, etc etc. Go for it.

Tourist in MSN

Nothing wrong with an eight speed cassette in the back. When I built up my LHT in 2004 I noticed that often the difference between an 8 speed cassette and a 9 speed cassette was very minor. They often shared most of the same sprockets. For example, I use an SRAM 8 speed cassette, 11/12/14/16/18/21/26/32. The SRAM 9 speed cassette has a 24 and 28 sprockets instead of a 26, other 7 sprockets are shared. Thus, I would have gained little with a 9 speed.

I use a road triple with an aftermarket granny gear, 52/42/24. The 24t to 42t shift is not very smooth, but otherwise I am very happy with this gearing. I only make that 24t to 42t shift when I reach the top of a steep hill, as the 24t granny gear is only used on the steepest hills. So the 24t to 42t shift it is not a common shift. That type of gearing however requires a friction front shifter, indexed unlikely to work.

My combination of front and rear gearing gives me one and a half step gearing. Thus, a shift between the 42 and 52 is one and a half times as big as one gear change on the rear. This allows me to fine tune my shifting.

Unladen, I spend the vast majority of my time in the 60 to 90 gear inch range, loaded with touring gear I am in the 50 to 80 gear inch range almost all of the time. Thus, I wanted a lot of gears in those ranges. I was happy enough with the gearing on my LHT that when I built up another touring bike a year ago, I chose identical gearing. But, I have since bought a 46t chainring to replace the 52t, that will give me half step gearing but I have not gotten around to changing components yet.



When I posted this, the formatting was jumbled, I will continue in the next post.

Tourist in MSN

Continued from post above:

The gearing I have results in the following gear inches (Schwalbe Dureme 26X2.0 Tire), the two most cross chained gears for each chainring are not used:



When I switch to the 46t chainring instead of the 52t, I will gain a gear in the 50s and lose two gears that are only used on long downhills.



The point is that when cost was not an issue, I chose to use a triple 8 speed system because of the benefits and it gave me the gearing that I wanted. So, don't feel that only cheap bikes use such a system.

BigBlueToe

I toured with a 3 x 7 setup for years. I had no drivetrain problems ever (just spoke-breaking trouble.) It had bar-end shifters, with clicks on the right. I gave that bike to my nephew a few years ago and he rode it all the way from Vancouver, B. C. to San Francisco. Not a single problem.

My present bike (LHT) has 3 x 9. I've taken it on two 3-4 week tours, and one weeklong. No problems. I think it's a very reliable setup. It also has bar-end shifters, click on the right.

fietsbob

I too put in most of my miles on 6 and 7x3 stuff, its about the ratios . and the available range..
like 18 - 95 inch..

My current favorite: 14x1, and no derailleur at all..

prathmann

My touring has been on 2x8, 3x6, and 3x5 arrangements with either bar-end or downtube shifters. As others have said, these older shifters are pretty simple and easy to maintain with little chance that anything other than the cable will break. Replacement parts seem to be readily available but I've never had to replace anything while touring.

Newspaperguy

I've never had a derailleur problem while on the road — and that's after thousands of kilometres using a 7x3 setup on an old mountain bike and thousands of kilometres on a 9x3 setup on my present touring bike. The worst that has happened on my present bike has been the need for a minor front adjustment. Nothing more.

Keep the bike in good repair before beginning a tour and you should be fine. If something happens to go wrong with the derailleurs or shifters on the road — a slim possibility — it's possible to rig something together to get to the next town with services.

countrydirt

Hijack! Can you tell us about this bike?

djb

65er, I have the same front panniers, cept mine are blue. Alright cept for the goofy velcro mounting system, which in theory was and I guess still is, good for bumpy roads so less worry for bags of the era popping off, but getting the second one on properly was always a pain in the keester.

but hey, they work.

My Kuwahara is a 3x7 setup as well. As others stated very well, an 8 speed would be perfectly fine and as Tourist says, a cassette of whatever to 32 (or even 30) is ample, especially with a 24 granny. I used a 50-40-24, so can see how the 42 to 24 is a bit of a jump, I find the 40 to 24 jump a bit much, but still entirely doable, I tend to just pop up two gears at teh back when I go down the granny anyway. If I were do it again, I'd go a 48/36/24 or 26 granny, depending on the rear cassette.

basically, it would be easy to cheaply set up an 8 speed triple setup that would have a reliable, perfectly fine range of gearing for touring on a budget.

vik 

I just got a touring tandem with a 3 x 8 that I requested specifically. I can't say I notice the difference between 8/9/10 speed bikes and the 8 speed gear is so cheap it's a great choice for a bike that will see lots of miles.

safariofthemind

Thanks folks. Have decided to go for it. The base bike is a $100, 1991 Raleigh Traverse in good repair which is actually 7 x 3 https://www.mombat.org/Raleigh.htm . The Shimano group data is here https://datenbanken.freepage.de/traut/SHIMANO.html . It says the 1991 set used the CS-HG50 cassette and M400 group parts. Pretty basic and quite serviceable. The bike shows a tiny amount of rust staining but no serious damage anywhere. It was used as a daily commuter by a student at UNC-Chapel Hill and it stayed outside. Looks mostly ok, with tight BB and hubs and no bad "play" anywhere.

Nashbar has a nice quill stem adapter https://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...1_10000_202439 and euro/butterfly bars here https://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...1_10000_202446 . Question is whether to spring for new friction shifters because the originals look pretty ratty - what would you all recommend?

The wheels are true and look serviceable for short trips but as they are the originals, the question is whether to use as-is until it breaks and replace with new off the shelf wheels when the time comes or rebuild now (I don't know how to lace so I'd have to pay someone to do it). The tires are shot so was thinking of putting in a pair of Continental Touring Plus 26 x 1.75 ($40 each). I am donating a old pair of Eastpack panniers.

Need rear rack (for use without eyelets) and fender recommendations...

zonatandem

Have toured with 'real 10' speeds back in the 70s . . .
Keep it simple. Brifters tend to wear out, an unless Campy, are not fixable.
Have toured with downtube shifters, barcons and STI. Our best/least trouble: barcons.

safariofthemind

Hi Zona,

Agreed. Bike is not for me, it's for a 15 year old teenage boy just getting started. He's about 5'8" and 145 lbs and pretty fit but I want him to get a good experience so he'll be a willing future touring partner. My bike is a CrossCheck with 105 brifters and I am actually thinking of going to bar cons myself...

Sixty Fiver

It is a 1987 Kuwahara Cascade which was more of an expedition bike than a mountain bike when it was new... original parts were all Deore and these bikes sold for about $900.00 new here and as such are not as common as lower end models.

Frame is quad butted Ishiwata, (hand made) with a Tange fork.

Have added drop bars, Brooks saddle, Suntour Vx drive parts, Barcons, and LX hubs with Mavic wheels and an 8 speed... will be building some custom racks and have some new custom wheels in the works as well.

Picked the bike up for $25.00 from a friend's shop 5 years ago and have ridden it well over 25,000 miles since then... it is one of the nicest bikes I own and is purpose built for touring so does not get used much for other stuff.

It is set up for some spring touring now... freshened up the bar tape and changed the gearing a little as a half step and 8 speed is redundant.

Sixty Fiver

Those front panniers have metal hooks and no Velcro... gave them to a friend as I had other front bags.

My Kuwie was originally a 7 speed (freewheel) with a 28/38/48 and had a 14-28 in the rear... the 11-34 8 speed gives wider range and closer steps and I often play with chain ring set ups and currently have a 28/40/50 which gives me a 20-113 gear inch range... find that having the 40 in the middle gives me a pretty good working range of 30-90 gear inches.

When I go back to a 7 speed I might return to a half step / granny set up as I like them a great deal.

safariofthemind

VERY nice job Sixty Fiver.

From your postings you obviously have a great deal of mechanical knowledge. Do tell, were the rack and fenders a challenge? Any other gotchas? Are the wheels 36H or 32H?

Though there is no shortage of old MTB's in the RTP (Research Triangle Park, ie, Raleigh-Durham, NC) area, we have a dearth of places selling older parts. Guess the shops have to push all the new stuff to stay in business, but it sure would be nice to get this 7/8 speed into more common use since the parts are so affordable.

Sixty Fiver

Thanks... I do run my own small and soon to be expanded shop and also work with a local and well established frame builder as an apprentice and serve as the shop's mechanic and wheel builder.

The cascade is a nice frame and aside from missing a third water bottle mount is an ideal touring bike... the brake bridge and chain stay bridge are drilled and tapped to make fender mounting just that much better and mounting the racks was pretty straight forward. The front rack is actually two racks which I will eventually replace with one of these.






We design and build a lot of custom racks and joke that we sell a bike with every set of racks as these are something the shop is well known for... as we build touring bikes and tandems most come equipped with custom and often integrated racks.

Sixty Fiver

There is a lot of nice eye candy here for anyone who likes the idea of building up older mtb's into commuters and touring bikes... seems like once upon a time I was one of the only people doing this and now more and more people are discovering how nice and versatile some of these mid eighties rigid mtb's are.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...MTB-conversion

djb

My 1990 Kuwa Caravan has Ishiwata "EXO" quad butted tubes, not sure of the fork. It cost about $600 I think, expensive for me at the time, and I can see how yours was not that common. The Cascade looks like an interesting bike, I wonder how the frame design is diff from my bike, from how you describe it, it perhaps is beefier, who knows. I put this photo up on another thread when someone mentioned their Kuwahara, I don't think you were in on that, I could be wrong.

It came with 50/40/28 (Biopace) which I changed soon to round 50/40/24. I too find the middle 40 is a good setup with its good working range, although I prefer that to a half-step personally. The "velcro" MEC bags work alright, but when you put on the second bag, its finicky to get your hands through the spokes to do the velcro when the other bag is in the way.

As for affordable parts, this really touches on the whole cost vs "useability" ratio, when I look at costs of 10 speed vs 9 speed vs 8 speed stuff, it seems to me that it halves on the way down, and especially with the 9 to 8 prices, setting up a bike for someone like the 15 yr old son of the OP, it just makes sense to spend a quarter or less on parts that will pretty much give the same useability factor. Don't get me wrong, I have a gas riding my 9 speed brifter cross bike, but with touring gearing in mind, the diff between the 9 speed and my late 90s 8 speed Rockhopper is pretty much nothing.

I have often thought of redoing my Caravan, new bars, going bar end shifters, going 8 speed. I guess in the end, I would have to figure if it was worth it, as I could probably find a good, used, similar newer touring bike with little use for the same amount of all the parts changes....

Doug64

It will work fine. I have an 8X3 on one of my bikes and it is the one I ride the most. The only problem I had was building a rear cassette with a 34 cog. I have cogs from three different clusters in the cassette I'm running now, a 12-34, 46/36/26 crankset.