First, why do you call the Great Divide route off-road, since it is mostly on dirt roads? I see this term off-road a lot. Does that mean off paved roads and onto dirt roads? Or does it mean off dirt roads and right into the forest or sagebrush or whatever. I can't even push my bike easily through most forest scrub or sagebrush.

Second, I can tell you this from my three month-long tours so far. There is almost no one but me out there bicycling touring the remote American west, by which I mean away from the national parks and other hot-spots. Lots of ranchers, hunters and other outdoors types in pickup trucks, SUVs or Jeeps. A few dirt motorbikes doing day trips (these have the same water issue as bicycles, plus the problem of gasoline, plus inability to carry spare tires and other spare parts). But that's it. And there are certainly lots of people here on bikeforums.net and bikepacking.net talking about touring the American west, but I don't see them in the field. Tons of people on bicycles in Chico, CA (and over 15 bicycle shops for town of under 200,000), but no one but me bike touring the magnificent Lassen forest which is right next door. The Lassen area is shady and at least 4000 higher in elevation than Chico and hence cooler. Which counts when temperatures soar to over 100°F in the Central Valley. So you might want to think about that "lots of folks".

Also, the Great Divide runs through the mountains, so water shouldn't be a problem most of the time. No more a problem than for PCT backpackers. Just plan carefully. I wouldn't be surprised if the GDR was designed around water sources, same as the PCT. I prefer to ride wherever my fancy takes me, without having to be ultra-careful about water, and I don't think ultralight would allow that kind of flexibility in the American west. Which is why my own water capacity is a whopping 23 liters.

It's easy for a man my size (170 pounds, 5'11" tall) to go through 6 liters of drinking water on a hot dry day. Add another liter for washing up and that makes 7 liters, or 15 pounds of water already. And yes, there's lot of places where water is hard to get out west. Even in the Lassen area, which is mountainous and has lots of water underground, most of the forest is dry in summer. Sure, you can plan your trip carefully around water sources, the way Pacific Crest Trail hikers do, but I find that a nuisance. Once you get into the vast dirt road parts of the Great Basin, or Mojave desert, or west Texas/New Mexico, which is where a bicycle really feels at home, you'll be wishing you had that 10 liters water. Wait until you get a kidney stone from not drinking enough and then you'll realize the true importance of water (happened to me).

Yes, I'd consider 12 pounds of gear and 10 pounds (=4.5 liters) of water lightweight. I'd also say this will limit you severely in the American west. Where I can see the appeal of ultralightweight is for two or three day weekend trips, for people who have a job and hence can't take long tours, since they want to be able to move quickly to/from the city where they live out to someplace scenic, especially when they need to move quickly uphill (since that is where weight kills). For example, a quick jaunt from Sacramento into the High Sierras (where there is water) and back.

Thanks for the clarification.

if an item does not get used, I try to scrutinize its "worth".
i.e. Stein Mini Cassette Lock ring tool: http://www.adventurecycling.org/stor...sette-lock.cfm

do I really need to carry this?
there have been times when I carry it.

in my opinion, in the true sense of "ultralight", no... I don't carry it.
instead, I simply make sure my bike 100% squared away. which means new drivetrain, cables, housing, tyres, etc...

my reality, is that I've never had the occasion to need to remove a cogset while on the road.

I'm also a certified UBI mechanic with at least 20yrs of bicycle experience. I'm pretty familiar with what works and doesn't.

as to a First Aid Kit:

no I don't carry a complete first aide kit.
I use A&D ointment and triple antibiotic ointment while on tour.
in the last year or so, I've become somewhat obsessed with Camo Form: http://www.mcnett.com/Camo-Form-Prot...Wrap-P274.aspx
I use this stuff to wrap parts of the bike, like the seatpost, on my Big Dummy I don't like the white on the Fox fork, so the entire fork has been wrapped in camo form.
I use this stuff like you would electrical tape and/or friction tape.

wrapping areas like the entire seatpost gives the seat bag a more solid grip, and I'm able to get that bag totally compressed and secured, no wiggling.

another spot I like to wrap are the brake levers.

so camo form is easily usable for things like an Ace Bandage, etc...

maybe I'll carry a band aide or two.

I have a tendency to tour solo, and when I get into the dirt, I pretty much ride at about 60% of my ability. the idea here is that of course if you get hurt, more than likely no one will be around for quite some time.

I do carry a SPOT GPS transponder, which I've used for a couple of years now.

my focus for ultralight touring, is being on the bike.
with that said, I choose things like a wool jersey, wool base layer, wool arm warmers, and long finger wool gloves (deFeet woolies)

a couple of years ago I rode from Banff to Butte in about 5 or 7 days... I kind of forget.
at any rate, the hours on the bike, sweat, etc... on that ride I choose typical synthetic clothing. my body hated wearing any type of clothing! I could hardly stand it.

with wool, I have yet to not like wearing it.
for a tour like going down the west coast, this setup was ideal
early foggy mornings are perfect for wool, then during the day, even when I was inland on a fireroad, and it was over 90F, I was still comfortable. I do end up removing arm warmers. if it gets crazy hot, I remove my base layer.
this last trip I used a piece from Hincapie. typically I use SmartWool or DeFeet. DeFeet base layer is just a little bit on the thick side.

when it comes time to crash out, I like to use my wool jersey as a pillow. I put anything soft inside it, and try my best to form it to something I can sleep on.
sometimes I just wad it up and lay it against what ever hydration pack I've chosen. typically an Enduro pack from WingNut Gear.

my biggest challenge is food. I seem to constantly over pack.
somehow i seem to always make it to provisions ahead of schedule.

no doubt, this is the best method.
i especially like having someone jump ahead with a car, get the hotel, arrange food, shower, etc...

I never made it down into the Great Basin, but I'm pretty sure this is where the water issue really comes into light. from what I know there is only 1 place to get water.

no doubt weight = comfort

typically the more weight = more comfort in camp
less weight = more comfort on the bike.

weight = time

more weight = more time in camp
less weight = more time on the bike

I've done a few jaunts dead smack winter, hail, etc...
so I'd opt for using my Big Dummy and a 4 man Tipi complete with wood burning stove.

=

time spent in camp, drinking tea, reading a book, being out in the boonies when most people are hunkered down in their houses back in town.

cold wet weather and lack of provisions = more weight (long low and slow)
warm weather, plenty of provisions = fast and light

As far as hammocks vs tents go it looks like the lightest tarptents (Contrail etc) are lighter than the lightest Hennesey hammocks by a few oz. I'm comparing things with bug netting. There will be traps that are even lighter. The prices are very similar too at around $200. I'm definitely intrigued by hammocks and would like to see if I find them comfortable, I'd plan on using my sleeping pad to insulate my butt as cold from underneath seems to be the big hammock complaint.

First off, its not really a rule or a mandate. Probably if it in any way could be twisted into a rule, it would state "be flexible".

I sometimes wonder how my ultralight system would work for someone else. For example, the straps that hold my bags tight on the bike frame double as my tarp straps for reaching around trees, as well as shoulder straps for off bike hiking and travel(I need to snap some picks of the two bags connected in thier rucksack/hiking form) The drawback is that they need to be read threaded thru thier loops and ajusted when packing up, but it still takes only a minute. The third set of bags I am designing should make this all faster.
I use my tailight as a soft light for setting up after dark and breaking down before light, saves my night vision. The two tent stakes I take for the tarp are part of my stove setup. And parts of my repair kit could be used for first aid, for example needle and thread. My one pocket knife does it all, cooking, or digging wires out of a tire.

So probably the only big thing to really guard against is outright redundancy. I myself have a really hard time not taking multiple lights. That is my weakest will right there.

the old adage is "the more you know the less you need"

maybe this applies here.

being able to be adaptable is a huge skill set

something that of course radiates thru our entire lives

my feeling is that when we fall into the mindset of specialized skill sets, suddenly we discover that your skill sets are only viable in specialized niches
our economic times are a great example.

lets say someone's primary skill sets are anesthesia, aerospace engineer, perhaps and electrical engineer.
jobs like this are often times only viable in a huge truncated format.

whereas, perhaps if a person had the adaptability, the artistry to move from one condition to the next, making the most of the resources along the way, we'd be that much more "free", to adapt to the changing world.

in a nutshell, my personal experience with touring is exactly that.
making our way thru the world.

some people are rigid in their ways, carrying their world on their backs, making an attempt to colonize each spot they sit down.
rather than immersing themselves in the world they travel thru.

a good book: Vagabonding

says something along the lines of the difference between a tourist and a traveler. being that tourists pay for their experience, they buy a vacation right out of a brochure. whereas a traveler simply travels and experiences the world as it comes.

in the day I used to carry a stove
then one day I bought an alcohol stove
then I decided to make one
which lead me to being able to origami a stove out of the trash by simply digging out cans
but yet they still demand fuel

which ultimately lead me to using a few rocks, and making a micro fire

now days, I don't even care. I eat foods that are available. eat local.

My philosophy has always been to pare down to the absolute minimum and look for truly useless items. Why bring the stuff sacks for my sleeping bag, silk liner, thermarest, and rain gear when I can put them all together in one big bag? That kind of thing.

You can shorten ounces just by putting your camera in a ziplock bag inside a nylon sack, rather than buying a waterproof ortlieb or something. Cutting the handle of my toothbrush was an easy weight savings.

Why bring a water bottle? SmartWater bottles from the grocery store cost 99¢, fit in your bottle cage, and hold more water. A rubber band keeps them from tipping out, just wrap it around the seatpost tube once. A tennis ball canister holds more food than some handlebar bags and fits in the other bottle cage.

After choices like that, I give myself the OPTION of grabbing that extra light. And I did need the spare light one night on my 30-day. So there!

i use a kifaru ParaTarp, its 11oz and compresses down to about 1/2 the size of a small water bottle.

as to bug netting, I just wear an O.R. bug net over my head, when or if needed.

my buddies say that I live like an animal when I'm on tour. I just lay on the ground and go to sleep.
typically I like to just sit up and meditate thru the night, sleeping only very lightly here and there.

Its funny how most ultralight threads get a lot of hammock banter. My current hammock is a byers of maine moskito hammock. 16oz with bug netting, it totaly sums up the spirit of ultra light in that it is delicate, minimal, and fussy. But I got it for 30 bucks at rei and have over three hundred nights in it.
I am lucky that I don't toss and turn much, and sleep well on my back. My tarp is seven feet by five, the minimum and possibly to small for severe storms. But I have weathered some real bad stuff with it. I just don't use down bags because of this.
It takes a lot of practice to learn to get in a bag, on the pad, at the right angle in the hammock. Even with some experience it can be a hassle.

The worst thing that ever happened to me in a hammock was at a campground next to a river in july. I had my home made hennesy copy, and slung it over some roots on the bank of the river, very picturesque. Got into it and had just settled with a book and BAM! the material, four years old and having seen a lot of sweaty nights, split and dumped me on the roots. Painfull.
So, I found a tree, clipped the remains of the netting on a strap and hung it from a branch, spread it all out the best I could on my tarp with rocks to wiegh it down in a tent like shape, and cowered all night from the hundreds of mossys that were around. Lucky it was not raining, but the ants were pretty bad, and it was in copperheaded rattleback and tick habitat. Needless to say I got a hotel the next night, and a walmart tent the following two days. That tent sucked.

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/x...X/P1000318.jpg

Only a front bag and saddlebag. No backpack. Lightest possible, although I have only gone 1200 km on it.

Ahh, but your credit card limit is not ultralight.

There are options. There are challenges that are different from a tent, but I don't think there are necessarily more challenges, just different.
Hennessy is not the only hammock tent manufacturer. They are probably the most popular and a good value, but there are others that might suit you better if the weight of Hennessy is an issue or if there are other factors.

If you can sleep comfortably in a hammock, then everything else can be dealt with. If you can't, there might be a different style of hammock that will work, but if you're already comfortable on the ground, why bother? I am a side sleeper at home, but sleep fine in the hammock. I can lay on my side in the hammock, too, but I think I sometimes sleep on my back as well.

Some people do fine with a pad in the hammock, but usually they need an extra wide pad and/or some modified pad(s) that have more width at the top. My first few nights involved both a sleeping bag and a foam pad. That pad never lasted a night inside the hammock. It was more trouble than it was worth, and I ended up tossing it out every time and just sleeping a little colder than I would have liked. The sleeping bag was a hassle as well, like shipwreck said, but once I got some under insulation, I stopped trying to get into the sleeping bag and just used it like a blanket. On my last trip, I didn't even do that. A blanket and a sleeping bag liner were sufficient. Actually the blanket was overkill, but I took it just in case. In any case, it became clear that being inside of a sleeping bag was not that helpful. My weight on the bag squished all the insulation and airflow underneath sucked out all the heat. Switching to an insulation that goes underneath the hammock has a couple of advantages, both comfort and ultra light. You don't roll off the under-insulation like you can with a pad. And the insulation can be very compressible, because you don't put your weight on it. The gold standard seems to be a down underquilt: warm, light, packs small. I use the Hennessy solution of an extra layer of fabric and a soft, foam pad. Not as compressible, but still lighter and packs better than my pad. Plus with the under insulation, I can use a blanket that packs smaller than my sleeping bag. So those are a couple of hammock-specific issues that can be a pain, but might have the side benefit of further lightening your gear.

no doubt being able to relax, focus, and sleep is a skill set.

just like being able to increase energy and focus, being able to settle down, quiet and be still is just as important, if not even more so.

for this kind of thing, being able to sleep on the ground, try sleeping on the living room floor here and there until you can really be comfortable
in my opinion being able to settle down on a hardwood floor is a solid base.
if you can manage to lay spine to the ground open to the sky, and relax, you'd probably be all the better for it.
being able to lay down and go to sleep is a huge skill set.
for the last 2 years or more, i haven't even been using a sleeping bag, but instead a Kifaru Woobie, that I simply roll up in. lately I've started using one of their Parkas which is awesome because its an actual piece of clothing that I can wear,sleep in, etc...

My original UL solution was actually a parka and a down vest for my legs. Two down jackets that are wearable off the bike instead of a sleeping bag seemed awesome, but it turned out not to be:

1. The items were rarely, if ever, useful at the same time so you still have "wasted" material no matter what.
2. The air pocket inside your sleeping bag is almost as important as the sleeping bag itself. That's why mittens are warmer than gloves.

Re: Hammocks

I use a full-length Thermarest pad, narrow edition and unmodified. It keeps me plenty warm inside the hammock, and makes for a bit of a flatter surface for more comfortable sleeping. My rain fly is also very minimalist, so if I hang it wrong a high wind will blow rain into my hammock. The sleeping pad actually keeps me above any water that might get in, so I don't wake up and I don't soak my stuff. But again, the only way for this to occur is if I hang my hammock lazily.

Practice truly makes perfect. I have some mastery of the hammock and am never struck with a "sacrifice" in comfort, dryness, or bugs at all. It also feels very sturdy- I doubt it'll be ripping any time soon if I continue to care for it.

I'm absolutely stuck with using a sleeping bag, though. I just don't sleep well without one.

+1. The mechanical advantage of a bicycle makes this true. This advantage is not available to a backpacker.

I excerpted a few key comments from Revelo here. Its tough to haul a lot of water with a UL rig. Here's what I've had to resort to if I want tohttp://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=270422 haul a gallon of water on the bike with the UL rig. http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=270421 I've had to strongly consider a hydration pack, which i am loathe to do.



If i were riding around in the Great Basin, no doubt about it I'd have a rack even with UL gear just to haul a 10 liter water bag + of water.

I don't loathe hydration packs. I had one on my back 9 hours a day for a month, through 100º temperatures, rain, and everything else. In it, I had my DSLR Camera, a raincoat, and 70 ounces of water (1.5L).

It really wasn't a big deal. I mean, I'm young with a strong back and heat doesn't bother me at all, but it really wasn't bad. Next trip i'll ramp my hydration pack up to 3 liters.

If I went to the american west, I'd do it with two Ortlieb Front Rollers on the back of my bike. Consider this:

3L of water on your back
2L of water in your bottle cages (Smart Water)
Two Nalgene Cantene 96oz bottles hanging from your drybag or placed in a pannier. Flexible, lightweight bottles with high capacity, and a little more durable than a platypus.

That's 9L of water. All I have to do is stop once a day to refresh. If I was headed into an absolute desert I'd pack more, but logistically, with a range of 100 miles a day on the flats I doubt I could stay away from water that long if I tried.

Different strokes, but I very much enjoy U/L touring and have little interest in tours much less than 10 days or ones leaving from my door for that matter. I really don't see where ultralight is limited to short tours. The longest I have gone ultralight is 33 days. That was on the Southern Tier (San Diego to Sarasota) which is definitely part of the America West and had some longish dry sections. It was all paved, but I see no reason why a dirt road, or off road tour could not be done with a similar load. Yes you would need to plan the route and pack with water availability in mind, but that does not preclude doing it. The ST trip required that I carry water on longish dry sections, was prepared for fairly cold weather (low for the trip was 18F), that I was willing to ride for over a month, and that I was prepared to climb. None of that precluded going U/L and in fact I found that style quite suitable for the trip.

At the end of the day, backpackers do much worse routes with much less base weight. My UL Trip was 30 days, and it could have been 300- nothing in my pack defined a shorter distance. If you can get through a few days with a kit, you can probably do 10, and if you can do 10, the only thing keeping you from longer is your mental stamina. Or your fashion sense.

Yeah. The key is to not try to make it a mandate. Multiprpose is good where it makes sense.

I tend to be the opposite. I have threatened to take no light at all, because I tend to use it very little. As a compromise, I stopped carrying a regular bike blinkie in favor of an eGear Tag-It Safety Light at less than an ounce and an Pico Zipper Light at 0.2 ounces. I wear the Pico on a chain around my neck.

Not everyone can or wants to go 100 miles/day. There might be sandy spots to slow you down, you might want to stop and explore some areas on foot, or you might simply find not enjoy cycling more than 5 hours/day. I averaged 8 miles/hour on my recent tour, and most of that was on solid gravel, with very little sand and only two places where I had to dismount and push uphill because I couldn't pedal. I didn't keep good records on my Mojave tour, but I would estimate closer to 6 miles/hour there. 6 miles/hour x 5 hours/day = 30 miles/day.

Sure, you could force yourself to pedal 10 hours/day and then you'd probably end up hating cycling eventually. I suspect this is precisely why there are so few people cycling the remote areas of the American west. They either had too many bad experiences of being forced to cycle long days to get between water/food supplies, or else they are scared (and rightfully so) of what would happen if they ventured into remote areas with just 9L water.

Something that really struck me recently is this. The Pacific Crest Trail runs right through the Lassen area and indeed I was hiking that trail there back in July. There are thousands of people on the PCT this year. Thousands. And yet there is no one but me bike touring in the very same area, even though I found bike touring that area much more enjoyable. Am I a freak for preferring to be on a bike rather than on foot, creating a breeze with my movement and nothing on my back so that air can flow freely and cool me off? To speak nothing of being able to carry huge amounts of fresh food and never having to worry about water because I can, if I want, carry huge amounts of that too? I camped in the same sort of forests I would have camped in on the PCT, using the exact same camping gear. When I wanted to get to town and the only path was a paved road, the bicycle was quite at home there, if not entirely comfortable (I dislike being around high-speed traffic), whereas a pedestrian is never at home walking on the shoulder of a busy road. Why so few people bike touring in this area? I suspect this ultralight bikepacking movement is actually part of the problem rather than the solution. Trying to jam all your gear into a tiny frame bag and then shorting yourself on food and water puts you into the same category as the people who try to hike the PCT with a 5 pound base weight pack. Another show-off stunt that tends to turn-off normal people.

Instead of evangelizing bike tourists to go ultralight (as opposed to merely lightweight, which makes plenty of sense and which bike tourists have always aspired to), I suggest evangelizing them to get away from paved roads onto dirt roads. (And please stop calling dirt roads off-road, which is very misleading.) Which will mean evangelizing them to love fat tires. Don't need a new bike. A LHT with 26" wheels can accept 2.35" tires (assuming no fenders), which is plenty fat. Replace the existing fork (whose steerer is no doubt cut way too short) with a new one with uncut steerer, replace the drops with a flat handlebar and you have a fine bike for dirt road touring. Now load the thing up with food and water and head for one of the areas where there is a wide network of dirt roads. The American west is best, IMO, because it is dry and only a masochist prefers to pedal in the mud. But northern Maine, Michigan, Minnesota etc also have networks of dirt roads running through the forests. Maine, at least, is pretty dry in the late summer (july through September). Don't forget your headnet and DEET if you pick one of these areas, though. (Fewer or no mosquitoes is another reason I prefer the American west, aside from the fact that I live there.)

I didn't use credit card...