Wait, so you camped out and cooked using only the things contained the bags in that picture?!

couch-surfing?

Seriously, thats like farting and leaving the room.

If you are able to multi day tour with that little ballast, we would love to know some details.

Edit. I found your thread on what to take on tour, and if you should get a rack or not. How did that trip go? how did the hostel situation work? Did you take anything other than the packing list you asked about, which mostly just seemed to be bike things and one set of clothes? Your trip sounds interesting.

You know, cycling in the right weather and the right locations, it's possible to sleep out under the stars under leaves with just a small emergency bivvy. Or on the front steps of a church, or railway station platforms. Even on a side road, or in the ditches. Insect repellant is a wonderful invention and takes up little room in the packs.

And you can have cash to pay for food. Machka is a great one for going the no-cook food route, and it's not that difficult to do.

We've done it often on randonnees, because there are many which are unsupported over distances such as 600 and 1000 and 1200km, and we don't book hotel rooms.

You think you have a mortgage on the UL wisdom, but people like me have been doing it for years down the the almost-nothing level. It's just that now, we choose not to tour like that, preferring instead a higher level of comfort.

And to the hammock lovers, what happens when you tour with your spouse or SO? One of you alluded to the issue, but... are their double hammocks, and who has used one? Or what?

There is a sliding scale from the "loaded tourer" setup through, light weight, ultralight to the puritanically ultralight that uses bubble wrap for a sleeping pad and has no cooking set. My approach is to go as light as I can while maintaining the comfort of an enclosed shelter with bug netting, a good sleeping pad, a down sleeping bag or quilt and something to boil water for soup, tea, porridge etc. I've recently been looking at my bike and how I carry stuff as a way to reduce weight and not comfort. So here's the latest setup. I've managed to eliminate all racks, even the lightweight Bagman for the saddlebag. The total weight of bike and gear (not including food or water) is 39 lbs. If I use a Sea-to-Summit eVent compression sack instead of the Carradice Camper saddlebag the weight would be 37.5 lbs

My next mod to the bike will be to get a new SRAM 11-36 rear cassette and rear derailleur to give me a gear range from 113" to 25.5"

http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...8/nobagman.jpg

Gear List
Front Ortlieb bag

Rain jacket (Marmot Mica)
Shoulder strap for bag
Sunglasses
Cable lock
Multi-tool (Leatherman Juice CS4)
Over shoes
Gloves (Man***** windstopper)
Toilet kit: Microfiber Towel, Bic Razor, Skin Cream, Sunscreen, Shampoo, comb, Toothpaste and Brush, DEET, Toilet Paper
First Aid Kit (Adventure Medical ultralight 0.5)
Sewing kit
Head lamp (Petzl)
iPhone with plug and cable for charging
iPhone battery with plug (Hyper Juice mini)
Wallet

Camper Long Flap saddlebag

Shenondoah quilt (Jacks R Better)
Sleeping Pad (Thermarest Neo-Air)
Tent (Tarptent Contrail)
Cookset: Ti Alcohol stove (Evernew), Ti mug (Evernew), Bic lighter, spork, Al windscreen, dish cloth, expandable cup
Denatured Alcohol (8 oz)
50 feet Cord
Convertible Long Pants (Exofficio)
Wool Long Underwear (Smart wool)
Padded cycling Underwear (Rapha)
Jacket (Marmot Driclime Catalyst)
Rain Pants (Marmot)
Beanie (Smartwool)
Neck gaiter (Smartwool)
Long Sleeve Midweigh T-Shirt (EMS Techwick)
Short Sleeve Lightweight T-shirt (EMS Techwick)
Socks (Smartwool)
Tai Chi shoes
Bike Multitool (Topeak)
1 x Kevlar Spokes
2 x inner tubes
Pump
Patch Kit
Tire boots, Park
Powerlink, IRD
Misc Nuts and Bolts wrapped in rag
4x AAA batteries
Duct tape
zip ties

your last two tours with the light gear have had you sleeping in hotels/hostels for both trips, right?

pardon me for voicing criticism no offense, but this thread is showcasing prideful 'do as i say, not as i do' evangelizing about UL touring.

Sure, it's possible tour UL and sleep out every night.

Or, it's possible to load your bike lightly and stay in hotels every night on a glorified 'look at me, i brought a tent!' credit card tour.

Iceland and the round MA tour I stayed in hostels and motels while carrying the stuff required to camp. I like to cover my bases, but have no problem sleeping in a motel if one is available. I do many weekend camping trips and when I was younger (and my wallet was thinner) I camped all over the UK. I share my set up in the hope that others will share theirs so that the community can learn from what they do. If my contributions are "prideful 'do as i say, not as i do' " the thread has still been worthwhile as there have been excellent contributions from others.

I have no problems with nun doing credit card touring while carrying a tent. I sometimes do this too. I do it out of financial reasons and I do what I like. Just this year while attending the Velo Village conference, I decided to camp because they want too darn much money for a hotel room (like $200/night) whereas a tent site is like $25 with hot showers. But when a motel room is available for $70 or $80 with breakfast and if it's raining or I'm tired I wouldn't hesitate getting a room.
Personally, I feel we are all grown up adults and we make adult choices. There is no right nor wrong. Unfortunately, some people felt they need to "prove" their ego to someone by only camping, only biking with no help from a sag vehicle and always show off they are the elite best lightest tent bike camper in the world. If that's your attitude then so be it, but I like this discussion thread because it brings valuable thoughts and advice.

Nun, no need to apologize to anyone. You do what you like because you're an adult and thank you very much for starting this thread!

You will like the 11-36 cassette and the 25" GI!

I think you're right. Climbing the Mohawk Trail a few weeks ago would have been easier with 25" than with the 37" min I have now. The Cervelo RS's stock gearing is obviously not ideal for touring, but the fix is straight forward now that the 11-36 is available.

I recall you weren't going to bring the tent to Iceland.

again, no offense, just clarifying some of the UL touring banter may be a bit contrived.

there's a slippery slope between 'UL bike camping' and 'credit card touring with hotel reservations', apparently.

I think there are some interesting ideas here once any posturing is ignored. Thanks for the ideas, folks.

I guess I am not UL, but I also don't like taking a bunch of unnecessary stuff. I got that out of my system when I did more backpacking and had some rather uncomfortable trips.

amen.

The fringers can sleep under 11 ounce tarps (I just checked base weight on mine, prior to adding a no-see um netting skirt to it), eat bugs, stuff our shirts with wadded newspaper, drink bleach and skip hot beverages at camp, but is it really something to try to talk other people into?

i reckon i could never be an evangelist.

Revelo brings up a great point about encouraging the road less travelled versus going bonkers about rackless touring with 30 liters of gear. A lot of the bikepacking setups I've seen are shockingly encumbered.

your Bicycle Practice is no one else's practice other than your own.

that is to say, neuro-pathways into a new frontier
we venture into unknown territories by our own endeavors

what is ultra light, ultimately of course is up to you.

so for instance, my grandmother had a family bookset that documented her family from just about the time they cam ashore to homestead unknown territories in North America
when the British Navy sank ships in somewhere in a bay along the eastern seaboard...
its a crazy story from what I remember

of which I seem to have this vision of a Bill of Sale
which outlined a still, teams of oxen, etc...


as to bicycle touring, I myself have taken delight in staying at Hostels!
they are great. I love hanging out with people, having a hot shower, etc...

playing on the title of this thread "ultralight evangelism", well its a fairly wide open title.
I'm quick to admit that on more than one occasion I've been referred to as a Fat Tyre Evangelist
however, I suppose in the accuracy of semantics ref: "Evangelist" of course the term will illicit a degree of dogma.

one of the reasons I like to come back to BikeForums.net is this exact type of constructive banter.

every region has its own unique resources.
I would love to do something like the San Juan Hut to Hut ride: http://sanjuanhuts.com

so my last quick tour down the west coast, I carried about 48 scoops of Perpeteum, and about 20 Meal Pack Bars.

the food issue, is what you make of it. arguably meal pack bars, pack more nutrition per gram than most "real meals" that you can prepare.

another relevant example would be MRE's, which for me is a throwback from my time in The Army. when it comes to gear/weight vs calories/nutrition, these examples are hard to beat.

IMHO UL touring is an exercise in self reliance. of course to the degree that anyone is comfortable with.

just as in any yoga pose (Asana), a pose should NOT be painful. instead, focus and settling into the pose is a key aspect to your practice.

specifically, in the technical scope of view, when it comes to racks/panniers vs frame bags, my experience suggests that racks and panniers are as contrived as the likes of external frame packs, curb feelers on a caddy, etc... an after thought at best.
as compared to the natural integration.

perhaps a more defined amendment to the thread could be
"CONUS touring on under $30/day"

I'm not sure if I'd ever try to coerce anyone into a particular bicycle practice, but instead I may highlight, that each person has the Right to Self-Determination.

I changed my mind and packed the tent. In a truly criminal development I not only stayed in hostels.....although I did need my sleeping bag for those... I also rode on the bus and rented a car in Egilsstadir. So I actually didn't even ride a bike for most of the trip. I know I'm the Jimmy Swaggart :cry: of ultralight bicycle touring, forgive me for having used my credit card to pay for accommodation when I had a perfectly good tent.

As long as you paddle cycled your way to Reykjavik I think you're still good.

nun,

We stopped in Iceland for 3 days on our way back from Europe, planning on riding some day trips out of Keflavik. (also flew Iceland Air). We did not even take our bikes out of the boxes. It was 28 F with 25 mph winds. We rented a car and enjoyed playing tourist. We stayed in a military barracks turned into a motel on a decommissioned air base near Keflavik. You did much better than we did:)

Other than Alex Campground near Keflavik, I did not see many camping opportunities on our whirlwind tour of the Island.

I talked to 4 bike tourists while we were there, and all of them used the buses. The winds were brutal. I asked two young cyclists on our flight if they enjoyed their tour of the Island. The reply was "well, I would not call it enjoyable, maybe more like memorable".

This is for you hammock folks-- Iceland
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...IMG_5706-1.jpg

Watching the Northern Lights. Ultra light bags suck in the wrong conditions (added)!
http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...IMG_5914-1.jpg

Looks like you did not bring the right equipment for the job . Not the bags fault .

Thom

fixed.

Personally I wouldn't carry a tent or cook gear unless I intended to use it a substantial portion of the trip. Otherwise I would lean toward just leaving it home if that was possible. On the other hand if someone else wants to that is fine with me. There is no dishonor in that. If Nun wants to do a tour with all hostels and lots of rides while carrying his U/L gear that is his choice. I would consider him a phony if he evangelized the U/L methods and never used them, but I seriously doubt that is the case. I am pretty sure he has done a good bit of U/L touring including cooking and camping.

My approach is to camp when I either want to or need to which is the majority of the time, but I find no dishonor in getting a room when the mood strikes me. I definitely like to eat some of my meals in restaurants, sampling the local cuisine is part of the trip. On taking rides or using public transportation, I usually limit that to at either end of the trip, but have taken a ride once in the middle of a trip when I was totally exhausted and far from a place to camp and it looked like it was going to get dark and leave me on a twisty canyon road in the dark. One other time we rode a bus in Sequoia National Park just for a change of pace.

FWIW, I found that if I just started leaving stuff I wouldn't miss at home, I wound up with a pretty light load. Then the practice of trimming the list became habit and each trip was lighter than the last, but no less comfortable. Ultimately I started buying lighter gear and the base weight plummeted even more.

That approach is pretty painless and you can easily just add stuff back on the list if you miss it. I have not really found that I have missed anything much yet though. My goal isn't to go as light as possible but to go as light as is comfortable. I do highly recommend that philosophy.

Evangelism in the wikipedia means relaying information about a particular set of beliefs to others with the object of conversion. To me, this is a sign of relief where this forum seemed to be espousing more on using trucks, and only the real trucks and nothing but trucks as being the ideal touring platform, though it does not have to be that way. I've seen WAY TOO MANY tourists who pack like pack rats for a 2 nights trip -- I mean, it is necessary to do a camping trip with 4 panniers, a trunk bag and a bar bag on a campsite that's within walking distance to nearby restaurants and grocery stores?!? And all of them are complaining the hills are tough -- yeah no kidding!

What is less obvious elements of evangelism when even some fathers of the cloth aren't even perfect? Just like Lance Armstrong. Even though he's a hero to some, his downfall is that, he's only human and even evangelists are only human. Some of these people had been called hypocrites, because they are not perfect. Nun is only human and I don't believe he's a hypocrite either when he's posting this thread.

I used to work for a company who sponsored cycle tourists. At first I thought they really claimed what they did, tough resourceful and well experienced. Then of course, over a pint of beer later, you start to realize that they are also only human. They sometimes "cheat" to get to a destination because it made sense like taking a bus or a taxi. At least they were honest. Whereas, someone people I know and tour with hold an attitude that I will always be perfect. Life must be a loner to them.