Iwould not try this indoors, but if you must I suggest that you have a bucket of water sitting somewhere nearby. If you knock the stove over or otherwise do something you wish you had not, alcohol fires can be put out with water.

I worked for three years in a research group that worked on fire protection safety. It is amazing how virtually everything can go wrong at the worst possible time.

That is a good point. Since I use the same windscreen and pot with either stove, if I plan on using the butane stove, taking the alcohol stove as a backup is easy and adds less than an ounce to the load. So if using butane I take the alcohol stove too, but lately have mostly just taken the alcohol stove.

Thank you.

And yet it continues...

Using the term 'mumbo jumbo' is just short hand for saying that you don't understand something and don't want to understand. You really can't use "technical mumbo-jumbo" unless you have some understanding of the "technical" part. And the only way to get understanding is with real world education and experience. I have a more then passing understanding and knowledge of fuels because that has been the way that I make my money for bicycle touring for the last 30 years.

Although I may not have extensive experience with using alcohol fuels for cooking, I don't have zero experience. I don't have to jump off a cliff to know the problems and pitfalls. (I have actual first hand experience with falling off a cliff. It hurts.) just as I don't have to have thousands of hours of experience with alcohol cooking to know the problems and pitfalls with alcohol stoves as compared to hydrocarbon fueled stoves.

Please. No. Heet isn't even ethanol which is the alcohol you can drink. It is methanol and will not only make you seriously blind but seriously dead. Buy a good single malt scotch or a nice tequila or a wonderful Sotol...it's like drinking liquid bacon, very smoky...and enjoy it. Leave the industrial ethanol alone.

Isn;t that what he said in his post? Denatured alcohol is denatured with methanol, and cannot be drunk, either. He referred to research grade alcohol, which is supposedly pure ethanol. But a cycle tourist would have to be desperate to want to drink stove fuel.

Not necessarily, the perfect camp stove comes from a Coke can and a bottle of Bacardi 151. Rum and Coke with a hot meal anyone?

Oooo... overproof rum. I had a experience one night with a couple of other friends in North Queensland around 1990, sitting on the back verandah watching lightning storms cross the Mareeba Tablelands. The light show was great, the after-effects of the rum no so much.

Though Bacardi 151 can sure screw with your vision temporarily, you speak the truth about the methanol induced blindness, it's not just a temporary condition. I saw two cases when doing a residency in inner-city Chicago. Sad to see what individuals will do to get their high.

Btw, Stuart I like your Mumbo Jumbo so keep with it. I've always said that one of the reasons I enjoy bopping into this particular forum is the civility shown among the members, unlike many Roadie forums where it can get downright nasty. You can agree to disagree on a subject as subjective as stoves but personal attacks on the individual should never need occur.

Everclear is available at 190 proof or 95% ethanol in any liquor store. I've never tried burning it, but an ounce in a glass of water makes what I refer to as rocket fuel. Almost tasteless. Very nice, really. Light weight, packs small. You can also clean your rims with it. A cycle tourist would have to be desperate to want to burn drink fuel.

That Sotol stuff sounds delicious, any recommendations on brands?

I understand your mumbo-jumbo. What you don't understand is how it's irrelevant to bike touring. When questionned on experience, you mention lab work and playing with cat stoves at home (yet wonder how people see how much fuel is left?). You don't like alcool stoves? Fine. Others have extensive field experience with other types of fuel and still prefer alcool so maybe there's something to it and you should tone down your crusades against things you have little to no field experience with. Here are a few other things that are relevent to bike touring:

- Cost: one decent punch makes thousands of alcool stoves.
- Weight: almost nothing.
- Size: smaller than anything else.
- Simple and reliable, no moving parts.
- Fuel found in gas station, auto store and/or hardware store. Canisters need a store with a less common "sporting goods" label. Those stores also have shorter opening hours.
- Silent. After a day of noisy cars, a canister/naphta stove is just another annoying engine. The quiet blue-flamed alcool stove is relaxing. you can't test that over the kitchen counter.
- The joy of making a stove out of a freakin' tuna can.
- Makes a good fire starter.

I had a MSR Dragonfly pump fail on the first day of a trip. I tried to fix it, tried to find a pump in a good size town but no luck. I did found a cat stove that I forgot in my stuff. They're that small and light. I used it for the rest of the trip.

This year, I brought both a canister and cat stoves. I used the canister stoves at first because yes, it's easy to use. Then I got in a town and the sporting good store was close. In the next town, a hardware store only had poke-through canisters but did have alcool. I switched stoves and told them to get screw-on canisters instead. The funny thing is when I used the canister stove, the tuna can was just a thing in my cookset. When I switched to the cat stove, the canister stove was an annoying thing in my cookset that served no purpose. I tried NOT to use a cat stove but it keeps coming back. BTUs don't say anything about that.

No, I've never had any flare ups or other problems with gasoline. I have had flare ups with white gas and an XGK, but only until I got the hang of it. Nothing serious. Just torso-sized fireballs.

I've also had no problems with the much-vaunted gasoline odors on the sleeping bag, etc. My MSR bottles have o-rings that are in good shape, and they simply don't leak. They're quite well made and reliable. Just in case, I carry them where a leak wouldn't be a major problem. But I've never had any problems, and probably never will.

And I absolutely love the new options for touring that the ultralight siphon system has opened up. Blows alcohol's availability right out of the water. It (relative availability) was closer before; now it isn't even close.

Much prefer the gas. Fine stuff. Many times less money. *Much* higher energy density. Hotter, more useful and beautiful flames. Way more adjustability. Way more versatility. Way more power. Way better for my applications.

Love meditating on the beautifully and brightly glowing metals, and the strong blue flames. Plenty of reserve capacity -- excellent back, excellent kick. Finely robust.

One of my last dalliances with alcohol stoves ended when I had the two girls side by side:

The alcohol stove looked so weak and anemic and lame. The multifuel stove just blew it away. Across the board.

Across the board.

That was about it for me.

I like alcohol stoves because of the simplicity. Pumps and pressurized canisters just add complexity. Heck, when possible I just cook over a fire.

I prefer the simplicity of alcohol stoves too. In my travels I haven't had trouble finding denatured alcohol except in Canada, although we did end up finding a decent substitute. Although my cat can stove cannot control the flame, I usually make simple meals from dehydrated food.

The only time the cat can has been a pain to use was in Iceland when it was super windy. I ended up charring a picnic bench because the flame was blowing everywhere, even with a windscreen.

Efficiency isn't the most important factor for me. On a tour I like things that pack up small, that are light weight, that are reliable, and that are simple.

I have 2 Trangia Cooksets. One real, the other a Chinese knock off I purchased in Australia. Like them both. Methyl Hydrate is my preferred fuel. It is readily available in Canada at any hardware /paint store. I understand the issues around methyl hydrate as a poison and am careful while handling it. I like the fact that the stove is silent, stable, mostly windproof and is a compact complete cooking system. I also have the cannister gas burner for the Trangia. Super convienient, lots of heat and lots of control. Again, cannisters are readily available in this part of Canada. I often carry both burners and fuel and use what I feel like on the day. I'm not excessivly weight conscious so the extra few grams doesn't really concern me.

As far as petroleum fuels go, I have an MSR Dragonfly. Excellent all around stove.My stove of choice for groups of four or more or cold wearther use.

In temperate weather the difference in time to boil a litre of water between the meths burner and the Dragonfly is minimal, when you take into account the set up time for the dragonfly. The cannister burner beats them both hands down.

I like them all, use them all as I see fit. I don't think any one system is more or less dangerous then any other, it's the operator that is the critical part of the safety equation.

Tell us how this is relevant to cooking on a bicycle tour.


And despite all your assertions about using this and that, you haven't accepted my invitation to post pictures of your culinary handiwork on a bicycle tour.

Hey how about this stove, cook your dinner and at the same time it recharges your phone or device

https://biolitestove.com/campstove/ca...view/features/

A heads-up for Trangia owners playing with their stoves in strong winds ...





Back story at the Australian Cycling Forums

Andrew

Joe has written a bit of a review of one of these .... for me cycle touring or for that bushwalking it is way to heavy and complicated to be of any value.

Andrew

I think I may have posted initially and said alcohol rather than ethanol. That may be the source of confusion. Just to underline. Anything with methanol in it is poisonous and must be avoided. So that's Heet and denatured alcohol which is a mix of ethanol with a bit of methanol. Research Grade Ethanol is 99.9% ethanol and ok to drink, but it really needs to be mixed with something to make it in anyway pleasant. Everclear (grain alcohol) is 95% ethanol and also makes good fuel as well as an interesting cocktail. Also butane does not in anyway make an interesting cocktail, score one for ethanol.

I'm sorry, but that stove is incredibly cool! I question the heck out of it and its durability for its advertised purpose, but still..... Worst comes to worse it breaks and your still cooking using wood.

Stove wise, I use one of the gasoline burning stoves MSR. It works just fine, extremely reliable (4 months of daily use with no issues whatsoever) and never had any flaring issues. I've also used a canister stove a lot and like using them as well, but not finding the canisters....

In my travels in Canada I found a little black plastic bottle Canadian version of Yellow Heet was sold everywhere. I bought a bottle at a rural post office in eastern BC.

The Biolite is interesting, but the camp version looks as if it's too much of a compromise as a charger and a stove. Having to lift the pan off to put more wood in will greatly slow down the cooking and it seems that the charger won't exactly juice up your phone quickly. I suppose you could feed it wood for a few hours. If you are going to be away from a socket or other fuel supplies it looks interesting, but you can make a passable wood stove with some twigs and a few rocks, and for around 8 oz you can get an external battery that will recharge an iPhone 5 or 6 times.

Isopronanol (rubbing alcohol) is easy to find in stores, but it's not a great fuel, still in a pinch. Denatured alcohol can be bought at pharmacies, camping stores and home stores and Heet at any service station. It's far more available than butane canisters, but not as available as wood.

Originally Posted by Niles H.
And I absolutely love the new options for touring that the ultralight siphon system has opened up. Blows alcohol's availability right out of the water. It (relative availability) was closer before; now it isn't even close.

I think the UL siphon would be particularly effective when camping next to a huge RV (caravan) running its generator late at night

I don't recommend it, but I have used ethanol based hand sanitizer in a pinch.

Non-denatured laboratory ethanol is commonly classified as either 'absolute' (nearly 100%) ethanol or as 95% ethanol which has 5% water content. I would not recommend consumption of absolute ethanol (although I tried some as a teenager) since to remove the last bit of water requires a process (azeotropic distillation) that uses highly toxic chemicals (typ. benzene) and some trace impurities are likely to be present in the alcohol. Better to use the 95% ethanol where the remaining 5% is just water. And, of course, any denatured ethanol should never be consumed.