One thing I enjoy about my Brooks and maybe not previously mentioned, is that they're somewhat slippery, meaning that I can slide my little tuchus (I wish) all over the saddle without grabbing. That's important since just as with my hands on the bars, continuously changing positions prevents blood flow from being restricted to any specify area. Many synthetic saddles are too soft and the top material too sticky for this to be easily done.
Just my take, they work for me but they're definitely not for everyone.

I see.

When I ride 30+ miles without shorts, my sit bones can get irritated. Even with shorts, my sit bones can feel it. I guess that's a function of the chamois on my shorts, which is there to help you wick moisture and prevent chafing. I used to think it was there for padding, but now I kind of understand. I bought a couple of chamois pads for the saddle, but I guess they're useless, knowing that they don't absorb moisture nearly as well, and will probably make longer rides more uncomfortable.

I have a love hate relationship with leather saddles (selle anatomica nsx, brooks b 17 and team). That said the B67 is fine. You can dislike leather saddles and still think that leather saddles rock for sitting upright.

Ah, thank you, I appreciate it.

Steve.

You obviously have much more experience with this than I do. Having said that though, it seems to me that tilting the nose up would press against my perineum, making the saddle even less comfortable. Please tell me what I'm missing here because I want to understand how all this works.

The classic position bike racers assume when going hard is perching on the nose of the saddle. That is where I go when I am going hard. Many decades ago, this was termed "riding the rivet". Brooks can take credit for the name. It is their beautiful copper rivet running through leather that is sitting directly on hard steel that the name comes from.

I spent a few years riding a beautiful Japanese copy of a Brooks Pro. Got to know that term well. When that bike got stolen, the sadness of losing a sweet bike was offset a lot by now having to buy a seat that actually worked for me. And the first ride was like "Yeah!".

Brooks seats are not for all.

Ben

When you tip the nose up a bit, it forces you back onto your sitbones, which is where you're supposed to be sitting. Most Brooks saddle riders ride with the noses of their saddles tipped up, and some (like Rowan) ride with them tipped up quite a bit.


Have a look at the Your Century Bicycles thread in the Long Distance forum. There are quite a few Brooks saddles shown there, and most have the noses tipped up.
https://www.bikeforums.net/long-dista...bicycle-s.html


When I got my first Brooks, I installed the saddle level, as you would with most other saddles. After a couple weeks, I was ready to send it back. It was just not working for me. Then Rowan (who was just a Bicycling Forum acquaintance at the time) suggested I tip the nose up. With a lot of doubt and skepticism, I did ... and it worked.

Since then I have had a lot of Brooks saddles and none have taken as long to "break in" because I know how I like my Brooks set up ... ever-so-slightly off to the left and a certain tilt up of the nose. Most of my recent ones have required a couple rides and they are good to go. My most recent one was comfy from the moment I sat on it.



This photo shows our most recent touring setup ... Rowan's bicycle is on the left and mine is on the right.

any Cambium users out there? i NEVER see Cambiums for sale used. So either no one is buying them (except maybe the BSNYC), or they are excellent.
I'm really wanting to put one on a bike build I'm working on, but $130 is a LOT for me (which is why I'll never get a Berthoud....).
I picked up very lightly used B17 for $60 late last fall, but only a few short rides on it so far.

As do I, on my non Brooks saddles. The trick is getting the angle just right.

Yep ... and it can take a few tries to get it just right. It's a personal thing.

Correct.

Well, funnily enough, Ben, I just found this yesterday in a link to an awesome vintage bicycle - » 1902 Centaur Featherweight (Hub 2-Speed Gear) The Online Bicycle Museum - you have to scroll about half way down to find the 1903 Brooks catalogue - "Brooks' Saddles for 20 YEARS the Recognised Standard of Perfection" which featured this dire...

Warning!
We have received complaints that . . . . . .
SADDLES OF VARIOUS OTHER MAKES not bearing the name "Brooks" HAVE BEEN PASSED OFF upon unsuspecting buyers AS "MADE BY BROOKS." We wish to impress upon all Cyclists that EVERY SADDLE MADE BY US BEARS OUR NAME on both flaps, and has at the back the name-plate "BROOKS," so well-known to all riders. NO OTHER SADDLE IS MADE BY US. When buying a saddle, Cyclists should LOOK FOR THE NAME, and not be put off by inferior imitations."

So there - serves you right for riding a fake!

Thanks you so much for taking the time to provide me with an explanation that even I can understand. I will certainly tilt the nose of my B17 up tomorrow before I go out for my morning ride. I'm expecting great results, and thank you again [MENTION=4588]Machka[/MENTION].

One thing to note is the handlebar height. Although the seat may look tilted up, it's really pretty close to a level plane with respect to the highest point on the handlebar.

For me the best saddle angle is a compromise which depends on the amount that I lean forward which depends on which hand positions I have on the drop bars. I sometimes use the drops which means leaning pretty far forward, sometimes use the tops where the interrupter brake levers are, and sometimes the hoods or other places. All of these positions cause a big change in the amount of forward lean. The net result is that I usually have to use a trial and error method of finding the exact saddle angle that is a compromise that works for all levels of forward lean.

I also find that the width of saddle is dependent on amount of forward lean, if I sit more upright I can use a wider saddle like a B17 but when I lean more forward I need a narrower saddle like a Brooks Pro. I settled on the Conquest as my favorite.

If you have springs on the saddle (Flyer, Conquest), when you sit on the bike, that also depresses the rear of the saddle a few mm which impacts the saddle angle. I tried to measure the spring deflection several years ago, I measured 5mm for my weight which is about 180 pounds. But this measurement was not easy to do when you can't see what you are measuring, thus measurement is subject to wide tolerance.

It would depend upon how much padding you have on your backside. If you have little, even if you are a light weight, it appears to make no difference as it is the prominence of the sit-bones which seems to be the deciding factor.

I have a Cambium C17 that I put on my AWOL, replaced a Flyer that belongs on my Randonee. I read the Cambium reviews and liked the fact that it supposedly has a 0 break in and is weather resistant so I gifted myself one for Christmas. I replaced the Flyer with the Cambium and initial experience is that it is nowhere near as comfortable as my Flyer and less comfortable than I remember my flyer being when I first got it. I'll defer final judgment until I can ride in warmer weather but if comfort doesn't dramatically improve I don't see it being mounted on my bike past spring.

As far as the break in for my Flyer is concerned it was okay when I first got it, I felt it after longish rides but never hurt hurt. After around 500 mi. it got to the point where I didn't even notice it and that is where it has remained.

[MENTION=195134]edthesped[/MENTION] - thanks! if you decide to give it up in the spring, drop me a note. if i don't have one by then, i might/may be willing to take it off your hands (in exchange for ca$h, ofcourse....)
looking on eBay - the Cambiums are just really pricey ($140ish). if lots of people were hating them i would expect to see them going for half price and such.

With leather, it either wins or you do. So if you get a pair of shoes and they fit pretty much correctly, but there is a spot that needs to give, it will either give in a short period of time or possibly end up hurting you a lot. If you are going to get hurt, take it to a shoe guy, and get the spot stretched, end of story.

With saddles for whatever reason, it isn't normally a padding issue, you may be a winner or a looser. If you are going to ride the thing in discomfort for 1K miles, better to mark the sitbones, and upset the surface of the saddle so you are comfortable. That is all you are missing, you need to upset the convex surface into a concave surface, and simply pressing down with a golf ball can do it. Do a very small spot and your seat will do the rest. But if you can develop sufficient pressure, it can take a long time and there is no point to it. I normally break one in in about 4K. Only done 2 for myself, but that is the drill we all use.

How long it takes to "break in" a Brooks is more dependent on how long it takes to adapt to the saddle rather than the saddle adapting to you. My first Brooks was a B-17N on my touring bike and it was instantly comfortable out of the box. I can say the same for the Brooks Pro, another B-17N, another Brooks Pro (which my daughter currently rides), a Brooks Pro Alpe D'Huez (which my wife is currently trying) and the Brooks Swift (with Ti rails) that I bought in October. Basically, I've never experienced the "break in" period on any Brooks I've used.

But I've always ridden a much firmer saddle than most people do. If I'm going to have trouble with a saddle, I've noticed that the softer ones cause me more issues than the harder ones.

I will say that I also have plastic saddles on mountain bikes. I've found that Brooks don't work that well on a mountain bike...they are too wide at the back to allow for sliding off the back of the saddle. Since I have plastic saddles on my mountain bikes, I can do comparisons of Brooks to plastic and I can tell the difference. For me, the plastic ones don't give under the rider and thus feel wider between my legs. There is a subtle resistance to bending that just makes the plastic ones not as comfortable. It's not a huge difference and riding one or the other wouldn't be a problem...I can adapt to anything... but it is noticeable.

As to the nose up thing, I'm wondering if that doesn't work better for those that sit more upright rather than those who ride in the drops or ride more stretched out.

I do think that Brooks saddles are more finicky in regard to positioning than most other saddles, in that only a small difference in tilt or set back can make a huge difference in comfort. Once I find that sweet spot, I HATE to move my saddle or seatpost.

What makes it comfortable?

I think most saddles have a pad over a relatively hard shell. The shell might flex a bit, but basically the saddle action is based on compression which has a variable range of increased resistance. I have a B-17 Special on my single speed flat bar bike and a C-17 on my Roubaix Expert.

My experience with both of them is that I get supportive flex of continuous-value resistance through the range of motion. I get a flow compatible with all the motions that go into riding a bike, especially the nearly invisible one of balancing to keep upright.

My Roubaix came with a Toupe+ (2012 version) and it is pretty comfortable until it starts talking back to my ass at 30 miles. It's compression-based dynamic is more like a dual piston.

Both Brooks saddles show their worth over long distances. After a long ride, my legs are exhausted but my ass could go all night. Wait, that doesn't sound right...

A few weeks ago, for my own amusement, I listed out all the elements of a good saddle fit and the list went to up to 25 considerations before I decided I could be out on a ride instead of doing this. Only 5 of them were about the saddle itself.

Totally agree here but I have an upright urban bike and a drop bar road bike and I tilt both noses down slightly so I don't feel them. As a result, I have to maintain some psuh back to keep my bones on the wide part of the seat. But after a while it feel natural. The narrow front is just there to keep your seat oriented between your legs so you have good position.

That's another thing. You HAVE to position youself correctly on a Brooks and you have to work that effort into your routine until it is an easy second-natured thing to do.

We used to take a child sized baseball bat (20"), and tap lightly on the saddle, probably hundreds of times, until it gave a little. Ride it for a day, come back and hammer it a couple of dozen times, ride and repeat until it fit comfortably.

I also think cyccommute's comment is true. We attend to adapt to a saddle.

Applications of Proofhide heated in with a hair drier also help soften the leather a little.

I'm thinking that as long as there is a demand for them they will command top dollar. I'll definitely keep you in mind if I don't adjust.