fietsbob

You can tour on what you Own. I see all sorts of bike types on the Pacific coast route, and those arriving here from the East.

rawklobster

After test riding a Surly LHT, I immediately didn't like it. So I started looking for other options. I found this great site, The 30 Nicest Touring Bikes in the World which is how I found Independent Manufacturing. I wanted a few things I found would be hard to find on a stock bike. Upright riding position for a short guy like me (5'8" if I try, but really half an inch shy).

I was really into comfort which is why I dropped a considerable amount of coin on an ICE Sprint FS Tadpole Trike. I did the Pacific Coast Highway and loved the comfort and ride. Never sore, aside from quads from doing 100km/day. But storing it proved to be a problem. And I'm now purging like crazy. With the money I got from the ICE and the money I'll get from my Pashley, I hope to have a nice custom touring bike by IF with all the components I want. I enjoyed the Rohloff on my ICE despite some issues, because even with issues, I managed 1500km. So I'm getting another one. But comfort is really key for me, and a properly fitted bike I think we all agree will be much more pleasant than one that does not fit. So, no hesitation from me to build a custom bike, specially with touring in mind. Although I'm worried it will still be uncomfortable, because I have yet to own a bike that is comfy even on short days of riding, I'm trying to trust that all the things I'm incorporating will reap benefits towards a comfy, pain-free ride. Hopefully this will be the fix. The folks at IF have demonstrated that they want to build the bike I want, not what they think would be best, which I have encountered at a bike shop once. Basically convincing me of what I should want, but influenced by the shop owners needs and desires, rather than mine.

seafoamer

I'm not spending 4x's as much for a bicycle unless I'm some combination/average of 4x's more: comfortable on it & easier up mountain climbs.
But then even if that were the reality, I'd be worrying 4x's more about the bicycle with locking it up and all, so it's just not even close to worth it for me.

cyber.snow

I see lot's of different opinions but not much in terms of the value of investment. How much money is reasonable to spend on a Touring Bike? What factors actually drive the cost of the investment?

Seems like there is a big range between the $800 and $8000 price tags.

I hear a lot about comfort, but not sure that you can buy comfort as most of the bikes I have been looking at are within mm of each other in terms of geometry. So what does it really come down to? Is it a parts issue? A reputation issue? A status issue? What?

mstateglfr 

Well said.
My wife asked me recently while we were on a short local tour of the state if I would buy a new bike or always try to build up vintage frames.
I said I'd love to if we had money lying around as there are some beautiful custom designs I'd get a kick out of having.
But then I also said It'd be tough to let such a bike sit outside while camping etc. Something in me would have a difficult time watching a piece of art get slowly beat up.

intransit1217

I had a tour of the Waterford facility today. It really impressed upon me the attention to detail in build quality of hand built frames.

NeilGunton

I'm not sure why these questions keep being asked, when they have been answered in some depth already earlier in the thread. I did my level best to explain how a more expensive bike like the Co-Motion is different from a stock bike like the LHT or 520. So why do people still ask these wide eyed questions as if it's all a huge mystery that can't be explained? If you want to rationalize getting a cheaper bike, then that's one thing - but I keep hearing this idea repeated that there's no point in the more expensive bikes. There are differences. Whether they matter to you is one thing; but even if you decide you don't care about those differences, it doesn't negate the fact that the differences are there.

If a bike like the LHT or 520 fits you and you like the ride and handling (including when loaded), then that's great! Fantastic, you are lucky and don't need to look any further. Go for it, ride and be happy. But that doesn't mean we have to then go and try to create this cosy group fantasy that expensive bikes aren't worth it, and *everybody* should be on the bike that happens to work for you, and that there's no point in anyone paying more. I went through a few touring bikes in my quest for "the one", and I test rode many of the main contenders that are mentioned frequently. None of them really worked for me in terms of comfortable fit, or they shimmied when loaded up fully with panniers and handlebar bag. I only found "the one" that worked when I test rode the Co-Motion Americano. It ... just worked. No flex, rock solid, just what I was looking for in a touring bike. So, *for me*, that bike was definitely worth it. I also got a custom fit, which resulted in a top tube that was a little shorter than the other stock production bikes I had been looking at. As it turns out, this makes a lot of difference to me, and the end result is a bike that actually fits me for the first time in my life. So, my quest is over. I don't go looking for touring bikes any more. But do I then say that EVERYBODY should get one of these, and that the LHT etc are crap? No way. The LHT, 520 etc are fine bikes. If they work for you, then you're set. But I like the "Subaru vs BMW" analogy (or choose your random high-end car): I like my Subaru. It performs great and has what I want from a car. But that doesn't mean I try to pretend that there aren't better performing cars out there. I know there are, and I'm at peace with that. It's ok!

Same with a bike like the Co-Motion. You might be fine with the LHT, or whatever, and that's great. But there are better bikes, in absolute terms such as frame strength and stiffness, not to mention custom fit and other more relatively minor aspects like components (e.g. my Americano and Divide both came with sealed cartridge bearings - I like that I will never have to repack a hub again, or worry about getting grit in the races after I have to take my bike through a stream).

By the way, I'm not sure what touring bike you are referring to that costs $8000. Even the high end Co-Motions with the Rohloff and Gates drive costs under $4000. Is that bike "four times better" than the LHT? I don't really think it's fair to try to reduce it to that kind of calculation. At the end of the day, you just add up the things you want (or need) in a bike, and you try to find the bike that fulfills all those needs. If you find everything you want in a garage sale $50 bike from the 1980's, then what does that mean? Should we then be asking "Hey, my bike only cost $50, why are all you chumps paying ten or twenty or thirty times that for your bikes? Is the LHT really twenty times better than my bike?". See, it just doesn't work. Bikes cost what they cost based on a number of factors, including where they are made (ok, that's probably a major one - made in USA vs made in Asia), components and whether it's custom or stock size. Whether it's "worth it" is based purely on whether or not you need (or want) what that bike does. If all you need is the 1970's clunker, because it fits you and works great, then you are made! No need to pay $4000 for a custom Co-Motion. But if you want a bit more of a custom fit, say you need (like I did) a different length top tube from what comes stock on most production bikes, then maybe a couple of grand is worth it to you. But that's not to say that it's soley a matter of preference - like I said earlier, there are some absolute aspects to these bikes that differentiate them. The Co-Motion, for example, is built like a single tandem. I noticed a big difference in flex when standing up on the pedals climbing a hill with panniers full of text books. Big difference. I have ridden quite a few touring bikes, trust me, and in most cases I have test ridden them with full panniers. There are differences in bikes that most people maybe don't see, because a) they've only ever ridden the one bike, and b) they only test rode their bike in the parking lot of the bike shop, not with a full pannier load, and c) people have a tendency to want to push what they use and try to make out that since it works for them, therefore it should be all anyone would ever need, why pay more etc etc.

It's not about status, it's not about reputation, it's about what works FOR YOU. If a bike that costs $4000 is what you need to have a bike that fits you and doesn't shimmy like a wet noodle when you throw a load on it and try standing on the pedals, why then I think that bike will start to look "worth it". If you jump on a LHT and like it, and ride across country with it without any issues, why then I think you don't need to pay any more, because you've found the bike that works... FOR YOU.

Neil

cyber.snow

Neil,

Well said and it explains a lot to a noob like me.

I have done test rides on the 520 and LHT, but they were pretty much around a parking lot and were definitely unloaded. The bikes felt OK but somehow there was something in me that kept me from pulling the trigger and buying either one. Over the years, I have purchased way too many bikes from a bike shop or Craigslist only to be selling the bike a little later because it wasn't fitting correctly or didn't do what I thought it was supposed to do, (if that makes sense).

I see the touring bike as an investment in something I want to do. I have had a long conversation with the Co-Motion folks in Eugene and with Bruce Gordon in Petaluma CA and fit seems to be the biggest selling point with both frame builders. While their "stock" bikes seem to fit within mm of the other "stock" bikes I have been assessing, both companies have stressed the idea of building a bike for my build. While falling into the "average build" class, I am only 5'9" tall but have rather short legs, longer body and am living with ceramic rods in my back as a result of my military service (no complaints there). The Co-Motion folks have suggested that I come up and take a close look at their Siskou (probably spelled it wrong) bike and with a few small changes could get out the door with about a $4K price tag. That price tag resonated also with Mr. Gordon, who spent a lot of time one morning early talking to me about his bikes and what goes into them. For me it is not about whether I spend $1,500 or $4,000, it is more about "do I end up with a bike that I will want to keep and ride for the next decade?".

I realize that I am probably over analyzing this and I guess it is the over 50 years I spent as an engineer that has always been data hungry that keeps me asking questions. But I am now convinced, thanks to your inputs that I will definitely go see Co-Motion and Bruce Gordon before I buy another bike. But I still have a bunch of questions like...cantilever vs disc, kickstand vs leaning against a tree, drop bars vs jones bar, etc.

Thanks again for the info.

Tourist in MSN

Neil, well said.

NeilGunton

I have had a Bruce Gordon bike (a Rock n Road which I got in 2003). I think I messed up the buying process on that bike, by going through a local bike shop instead of dealing with Bruce directly. I was inexperienced in buying a touring bike at that point, and didn't know what to look for or what questions to ask. I basically thought that if I got my bike shop guy to talk to Bruce on the phone, then "the professionals" who knew what they were about would be able to sort things out for me. So I kind of disengaged from the process, which was a mistake. The bike that resulted was very nice, no doubt about it, but it didn't fit me well. For one thing, the handlebars were set too low, which resulted in too much weight on my hands. I got really beat up when we did a short tour across Minnesota, where there are lots of freeze-thaw cracks across the road (like, every 10 yards on some back roads, so you're going kaCHUNK regularly). Also, I discovered immediately after loading the bike up with panniers that my heels were hitting the bags, so I had to move them back on the rack to avoid that. The thing is, Bruce's racks are pretty short, so it wasn't easy to move the Ortlieb bags back very far. Then I found the bike shimmied, which horrified me (since shimmy was the thing that ruined my 1998 tour across America), but it wasn't too bad and only happened in some circumstances. I now think that the combination of the handlebars being too low, and the rack being too short combined to make everything "just so" in order to produce the shimmy. Shimmy FEELS like the bike is flexing from fore to aft, but Bruce's bikes are strong so that's probably not what was actually happening. Also, the reason I couldn't adjust the handlebars up was that the shaft on the stem (the old style threaded quill headset) was too short. I tried talking to Bruce about him taking back that stem and replacing it with a different one, so I could get a better fit, but he wanted me to just buy a different stem. He said the one I had was now "used", so he wouldn't be able to sell it, which was fair enough. But I felt I had just paid quite a lot of money for what I thought was a high end touring bike, and I was a little put off that he wasn't willing to work with me more to make it "right". So we had a bit of a disagreement there. I tried putting a stem raiser on the bike, and ended up playing with Softride suspension stems and butterfly handlebars to try to get the better fit. But I sold the bike in the end, because it just didn't fit me.

Here's my opinion about Bruce Gordon's bikes: He builds some of the best touring bikes out there, no doubt about it. He's a great bike builder. But you should be aware that with any bike builder, you are kind of buying into a particular fit philosophy. In Bruce's case, from my experience he seems to favor a slightly lower riding position than is optimal (for me at least). I wasn't able to even raise the stem enough to make it level with the seat, which kind of surprised me. Also, as I recall he had a bit of a thing against fenders on a bike. I guess living in dry California he doesn't need them often, but I've toured where it's wet enough to know that fenders can be really useful. They help keep the grit and water off you and the drivetrain, not to mention the panniers and rest of the bike. Anyway, the short story is, if you like how his bikes are, then you'll get one of the best touring machines on the planet. But just be aware that you are definitely buying into a certain "style". I was naive in 2003, and thought that "a touring bike is a touring bike", I had no idea about styles or fit philosophies. I was at the point where I thought standover height was all there was to getting the right size bike. It's a lot more complicated than that, at least for some people.

As for the Co-Motion, I am of the opinion that you don't really need the Rohloff or Gates drive. Sure, Rohloff is nice, and many people swear by it. Very nice not to have to worry about derailleurs, and you can shift while stopped, and there is less wear on the chain when it can always just run in a straight line without having to be bent to make it move onto different gears. So what's not to like? Well, one of the big selling points of the Rohloff is that it's supposed to be so reliable, but I have seen a couple of long tour journals on crazyguyonabike (Victor Weinreber's "Bikearth" and Erin & Sam Barkley's "Honeymoon to Remember" journals spring to mind) where they were using Rohloff and had to stop at some point because they had issues. And the thing about Rohloff is that it's a black box - you can't tweak or hack it on the road. If it goes wrong, then you pretty much have to send the whole wheel back to Germany to be rebuilt. So then you're stuck wherever you are, usually for a couple of weeks. Now if you're ok with that, and instead prefer to focus on the 99.99% of the time that you'll be enjoying your derailleur-free pedaling existence, then that would be a perfectly valid way to go. Like I said, plenty of people love their Rohloff. But FOR ME, I personally feel uncomfortable with the cost, the weight, the noise, the fact that you can't hack it (I have bent derailleurs back into shape on the road before with a pair of pliers), and the fact that if you are out in the middle of nowhere and something goes wrong, you can't just go to the next town and get a replacement derailleur. It's very non-standard equipment. But, that said, maybe one day I'll try it. Who knows. I don't hate it, I just have an instinctive distrust of complex black boxes on a bicycle that can't be hacked with pliers. I like open design, and a derailleur, while perhaps not perfect, is simple, cheap, replaceable, and it works.

Go into the bike fitting process with an open mind, and be aware that there are few absolutes in the bike business. It's a lot about personal philosophy and preference. Pay attention when you are test riding, and be aware that a bike can handle VERY DIFFERENTLY when you load it up with panniers. Try to do your test rides loaded - i.e. put the racks and panniers on the bike that you will be using on tour, load them up with text books (nice and heavy) and go do a 10 or 20 mile test ride on the road, prefereably with hills both up and down. This will give you a sense of how the bike climbs, how it descends (any shimmy?) etc. Make sure to include handlebar bag if you will be using one of those, because they can sometimes cause shimmy too. I know I go on about shimmy, and many people never experience it, but it's just one of those things that if you do experience it, then it's not something you want to experience again (especially going down a mountain pass at 50 mph). That resonant wobble can be very scary, especially at speed (and very annoying, if it hits at around 12-14 mph, as it did on my TransAm back in '98). The thing about shimmy is it can happen with one person, but not someone else on the very same bike. Everything has to line up in a certain way to get that going, and it can happen for different reasons for different people - in one case it could be because the rear panniers are too far back on the rack (tail wagging the dog), or it could be due to too much weight on the front panniers (as I found when I tried loading up my Salsa Fargo), or maybe your riding position is too low, or the handlebar bag, or whatever. Just be aware that shimmy doesn't mean the bike is crap; any bike can shimmy, even high end ones. You just need to try to make the resonant band be outside the range of parameters where you generally ride.

If you want some recommendations for racks and panniers, here's a starting point: I really like the Tubus Cosmo and Nova (rear and front racks). They are stainless steel, so no rust to worry about, and very strong. I prefer the Nova over the more common Tara because it is more adjustable in terms of position, and the tubing is a more friendly size for fitting both the bungee style panniers (e.g. Arkel) and Ortliebs. As for panniers, I have used Ortlieb roll tops, both in Classic (PVC) and Plus (cordura) and to me it's a toss-up which one is better. And I have used the Arkel GT series, though not on a proper tour. You can decide which style you prefer - the "one big bag, totally waterproof, simple, light" Ortlieb, or "lots of pockets, need rain covers, complex, heavier" Arkel. Me, I'm torn between them. I am currently with Ortlieb, but may go back and try Arkel again (I found the GT bags just too heavy, and found myself liking the simpler 100% waterproof design of the rolltops - but Arkel makes rolltops now too, so that makes it interesting). I like the lightness and simplicity of Ortliebs, but I also like the more robust metal mounting system and general build quality of the Arkel bags. Either way, these manufacturers are pretty good representatives of the two styles, and you honestly wouldn't go far wrong with either one. Of course there are lots of other bag makers, and many cheaper bags, this is just what I've used.

Be careful to avoid analysis paralysis - it's real easy, particularly with all the information that is now available online, to enter a spiral of finding "the best". Know that there is no best, especially in this business. While there can be aspects which are technically superior in one product vs another, usually in practice it pretty much comes down to personal preferences (e.g. Co-Motion is technically better than LHT, but are those aspects worth the extra money to you?). So if you don't know what you like yet, then just get something basic to start with, and find out what you like on an actual tour. Then spend the big money when you know what to look for. If this is a first touring bike, then maybe try something basic and off-the-shelf, if that doesn't work then work your way up to the Bruce Gordon's and Co-Motions of the world. Don't go to the full custom bike without knowing what you like, because you won't know what to tell them to put on there - e.g. when I had my Co-Motion Divide built, I knew ahead of time that I wanted to be able to mount my Greenfield Stabilizer rearmount kickstand, and I also knew that with disc brakes this wouldn't be possible, so I had them fabricate a custom kickstand mount that would allow me to use it. I also knew that I would be wanting to use oversized insulated stainless steel water bottles sometimes (I likes me some cool water on a hot day, and I hate plastic taste in water), so I had them move the holes for the water bottle cages up a bit to accommodate the added width. And, I had them add a couple of additional mount points on the forks, so I could avoid having to bend the fender struts around the disc brake housing. Also another couple of points for mounting a top-load front rack, should I ever want to do that. You see, these are things you only realize after riding other bikes. So, if possible, get something basic first time, learn what you like, what works for you, so you know what to ask for when you get your "dream bike" built.

Good luck! Listen to the bike builders, but also listen to your own gut. Don't let yourself be convinced that something is right if your own experience is telling you there's something wrong. The time to speak up is when you are doing the test ride, not after metal has been welded on your behalf. I hope the process goes more smoothly for you than it did for me - I went through a number of bikes in my quest. Let's see... there was the British Raleigh Randonneur on my 1998 TransAm (shimmy), 2003 Bruce Gordon's Rock n Road (shimmy, bad fit - not really Bruce's fault, just miscommunication between me, my bike shop guy, and Bruce when doing the fit over the phone), 2007 Surly Long Haul Trucker (top tube too long), 2008 Novara Safari (shimmy, non-optimal fit), 2009 Salsa Fargo (great ride unloaded, but shimmy with front panniers), 2009 Trek 520 (tested one, but not in depth - at that point I knew I wanted to be able to use larger tires than the 520 could take), 2009 Jamis Aurora (test rode a few times, but the frame geometry wasn't quite right for me), 2010 Rocky Mountain Sherpa (very nice bike, but not optimal for me in terms of fit), and 2010 Co-Motion Americano (beautiful bike, but eventually sold it so I could upgrade to their Divide, which is 29er and could take much larger tires). The Divide is my current bike. In the future, if money and time permits, then I'd love to get a Co-Motion Pangea - that's most likely the "world tourer" that I would use for doing something like Alaska-Argentina. But for now I am very happy with the rolling characteristics of the 29er Divide. It's a really nice bike, and it fits me.

Disk brakes are something that I could go on about... let's just say I have had bad luck with Avid BB7. Loads of people seem to say that they are "set and forget", but that hasn't been my experience. I always have to re-adjust the damn things every time I take the wheels off, and they always seem to start rubbing on long descents. I think the issue is that with the cable actuated BB7, one pad is immobile while the other pad is the one that moves against the rotor. The immobile pad has to be positioned very close to the rotor, and when things heat up on big descents, it starts rubbing. I'm pretty sure this is what's happening, because after the bottom of the hill, it stops rubbing after it's cooled down. I would really like to try out one of the hydraulic disc brakes, because with them both pads move, not just one. Let's just say, don't think that disc brakes are as much of a "set and forget" utopia as some people make out. Everything has its degree of hassle, you just choose the hassles you are willing to live with. I made a list of pros and cons here, haven't updated it for a while so I don't know if all the points are still current, but it gives some idea. As with all things, nothing is quite as simple as some people make out.

The Art of Bicycle Touring: Brakes: Disk vs Rim, oh god not this again

Anyway, good luck on your quest! Don't take anybody's word as gospel (including mine, I'm sure Bruce would have some choice words for what I've said here, for example). Trust your instincts, try to find a builder who you can connect with, not just on a personal level but mainly in terms of fit philosophy. Bruce, for example, has a reputation for being a little cantankerous, but that shouldn't take away from his skills as a bike builder. And Dwan Shepard, who runs Co-Motion, seems (from my own experience) to have a talent for looking at you ride a bike, and using that along with all the leg and arm measurements to figure out what will work for you. Everybody has their own style, and that's a good thing, I'm glad all of these different bike makers are in the world and doing their thing. We are living in a pretty good time for bicycles - a lot of great touring machines out there, lots to choose from.

Neil

ShortLegCyclist

Co-Motion Americanp, Pangea or Siskiyou with Rohloff, Gates drive AND S and S co-Pilot option will run well over $7000, closer to $8000.

NeilGunton

I was just going by this page:

Co-Motion Cycles | americano-rohloff

Ok, so that page quotes $3700 for the Americano with Rohloff. The S&S option adds $700, and custom sizing another $350, that's $4780. Still less than $5000. How do you get up to $8000 on this bike?

In any case, yes, I accept that with this sort of thing you can probably keep adding options and the price will creep up there. But that's true with anything. It's certainly not necessary, you can get a nice "basic" Co-Motion without Rohloff or S&S that is still one of the best bikes on the road for a lot less - e.g. the "regular" Americano is $2030, add custom fit and you're still less than $2500 for a top-of-the-line custom built bike.

Co-Motion Cycles | americano

Neil

ShortLegCyclist

$3700 is the kit for the bike and does not include the frame, you have to add the $1800 frame cost to the kit cost to get the total bike cost.

$3700 for any Rohloff bike would be an absolute steal considering the cost of the hub alone is about $1700 for a disc brake compatible version.

But I stand corrected, using that calculator the total bike cost with couplers is nearly $7000, not $8000.

NeilGunton

Really? That's interesting, if true then I completely misread their page, my apologies. I read "Add kit for complete bike ($3700)" as saying that the complete bike cost $3700. Oops.

Yikes

Oh, what's a thousand dollars here and there between friends????

Ok, so these are expensive bikes. But I always like to compare it to cars... to get the very best car in the world, you'd be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. Well out of the reach of most people. But you can get one of the finest touring bikes in the world for just a few thousand dollars. Custom made to your body, and with the very best the industry has to offer! And it's within reach of most people. Yeah, expensive, but hey, you can do it if you save for a while. If you can afford a second hand car, you can get one of these.

But still... yeah, $1700 for a hub really makes you stop and think. Like, wow.

Neil

ShortLegCyclist

Yeah, if you click through their calculator you can see that while you can buy the frame without the kit, you can't but the kit without the frame, and if you click both, the total cost appears.

If it means anything, I have two Rohloff bikes (though only one is disc, and you can get a non-disc Rohloff for as little as $1300) and the cost is in my opinion worth it. These hubs are amazing.

NeilGunton

Yeah, I see that now. Sorry, I was dumb.

Like I said, I might end up trying a Rohloff one day. They are certainly intriguing. I just remember that both of those long term tour journals that I mentioned earlier had problems where they were stopped dead in the water and had to send the wheel back to Germany. That just seems a bit extreme to me, in terms of what your recourse is in the event of failure. But, again, if you feel it's worth it, then it's worth it - just like any piece of gear. For my part, one of the things I like about a bicycle is that everything on it is visible and can be worked on, or easily replaced. Rims, tires, spokes, cartridge bearings, cables, brakes, even bottom bracket - you name it, generally speaking it can be easily replaced by any halfway decent bike shop on the road. Or overnighted to a motel. In the case of South America the delivery costs can get a bit extreme, which is why I'd probably take something like the Pangea over my Divide. The 26" wheels, with the more standard 135mm spacing on the rear (rather than the 145 tandem spacing on the Americano and Divide) are more easily replaceable than 29er tandem components, and 26" wheel is just intrinsically stronger than 700C (all other things being equal). And if you have disc brakes then you don't have to worry about rim wear, and with big tires rim damage will also be minimized. But when you throw the Rohloff into the equation, suddenly there's this critical component that is closed to me. If it goes wrong on the road, there is nothing I can do about it, and nothing any bike shop can do about it either. I dunno, it just makes me uncomfortable. I guess I could bring myself to try it, but I also hear stories about how it takes thousands of miles (?) before the thing "wears in" and becomes quiet. For me, I guess I would rather just take a spare derailleur in the bottom of the pannier (worst case - certainly wouldn't bother with that in the continental USA, only if going to deepest darkest South America) and call it good. But, even saying all that, I can see why people like the Rohloff, and I might end up trying it one day, so I guess for me it's just one of those things you either spring for or don't. Not a deal breaker, just depends on your wallet and what you're willing to put up with in the worst case.

Neil

seeker333

According to CoMo's price calculator, a Pangea Rohloff starts out at $5695. Add couplers, case+padding, dynamo/lights and tubus racks, price rises to $7,724. Prices are the about the same for other CoMo non-tandem models. Add sales tax and this figure exceeds $8,000. A few more bits from Brooks, Ortlieb, Speedplay, Garmin, Sidi and Showers Pass and you're >$10,XXX.

I think I'd choose a steel Rodriguez or titanium Lynskey instead of CoMo - just as good (or better) for probably lower cost.

I like the idea of Rohloff + Gates, but it seems a great deal of added cost for good looks, perhaps less maintenance and no regular chain cleaning. I could build a Salsa Marrakesh with Rohloff for ~$1850 by recycling parts and sourcing the Speedhub from German sellers. Or a Salva Vaya Travel in SS with couplers and Rohloff for $3300. I think I'd prefer a custom Lynskey Backroad with easier-to-pack-in-62-inches-box 650B wheels, Paragon dropouts to accommodate Rohloff+Gates, should come in around $5500 with other parts on hand. Still a helluva lot of money but compares favorably to CoMo steel pricing.

CoMo is more reasonable if you buy the frameset and DIY. Then again LHT is the cheapest route for thousands less if you are smart about component and gear choices and packing.

ShortLegCyclist

Well said, the only thing I would suggest is that the long (usual) lifespan of the Rohloff amortizes out when you consider you don't have to change cassettes or cranks and if you run a chain it should last much longer than on a derailleur system.

If you are running Dura-Ace, Ultegra, Red or Force components, just a few of those replacements would pay for a Rohloff right there. Add in the cost of tuneups if you have that done by a bike shop, which a Rohloff setup also does not need (although of course brakes still need to be adjusted periodically, but most people who tour on bike are likely able to handle that themselves).

So it's a one time hit to the pocketbook, and yes it can fail, but the odds are so much more in your favor that it will not fail and will last for years if not decades without anything more than yearly oil changes which you can easily do yourself, that it sort of pays for itself over time. If it lasts, and the odds say it more than likely will.

ShortLegCyclist

I did indeed choose a steel Rodriguez over Co-Motion. Looked at Lynskey but while steel can be repaired by a blacksmith in Ulaan Baatar if need be, titanium, once damaged, is nearly impossible to repair.

NeilGunton

Ok, but you're doing the "worst case scenario" there, with all the most expensive options. Now people are going to start going around saying "Co-Motions cost $8000". The truth is you can get one without the Rohloff or S&S etc for a lot less - e.g. $4375 for the complete 29er Divide, with custom sizing. Or even less than that if you just do the frame and build it up yourself (as I pretty much did - the only components I got stock on my Divide was the wheels, headset, handlebars and bottom bracket).

Rodriguez are also reputed to be nice bikes. I was looking at their "Big Squeeze" brakes for a while when I was thinking about building my own expedition touring bike (before I found Co-Motion).

Brakes designed for tandem and cyclocross bicycles, also brakes for touring bikes and bicycles

Not sure if they really do anything that different, though - I'm not an engineer. They certainly sound good!

The nice thing about today's touring bike market is that there are lots of choices out there. We are living in a kind of golden age, I think, for a long while the touring bike landscape was kind of stale and limited. We are in a biking renaissance, with a plethora of small custom shops doing all sorts of interesting things, which can only be good for everybody. We should be pleased there are expensive options out there as well as the budget ones, because that means it's a healthy industry with a market and consumers that are able to support it. Nothing bugs me more than when I look for something like an egg timer at the local hardware store, and there is NOTHING available but the cheap version made in China. Sometimes I want to pay a bit extra for better quality, but in the race to the bottom, quality options can be the first casualty. In the biking world, we still have those options, we have the ability to go out and get the boutique, hand brazed lugged frame if we want that. Even if you don't want it yourself, or think it's too expensive, they benefit everybody by their simple presence.

Also, it's nice that we have the option to buy bikes that are actually Made in the USA. Not to get jingoistic, but it's becoming harder and harder to find products that are actually made in this country. I like to think I'm helping to support local industry, people doing real jobs for a living wage. Sure, it costs more, but hey, it helps make the sort of world I want to live in, as opposed to the Wal-Mart, everything-as-cheap-as-it-can-be hell that we seem to be driving toward in so many other product classes.

Neil

raybo

I got a Waterford Adventure Cycle back in 2004 including S&S couplers and the hard shell case for $5000 all in. It is a wonderful bike that I ride year round whether on tour, training, or just staying fit. It is the only bike I own!

bikemig 

It's like anything else, there is a point where you get diminishing returns and then you get to decide whether it's worth it to you or not to pay that premium for a bike, which if properly used, will spend a lot of time outdoors and not necessarily in the best conditions.

Tourist in MSN

That is why I got my Rohloff from an internet seller in Germany. Mine is chain (16t) drive, not disc version, but it has the EX box and black anodizing which add to the price. I think I paid between $1,100 and $1,150 with shipping a bit over two years ago when I ordered it. (Plus another 3 percent currency transaction fee, I used the wrong plastic for that order.) The markup that distributors in USA of German bike parts is huge. All of my Ortliebs and one of my two Tubus racks is also from Europe.

Last month I ordered some Rohloff oil for my hub from Germany, here in USA I would have to pay more than twice as much for it.

Jim Kukula

a chainglider is nice with a Rohloff, too, for keeping things clean and lasting a long time:

tarwheel 

Personally, I would rather have several nice bikes than one very expensive bike. I've got 5 bikes, a De Bernardi Italian racing bike, a Ritchey cross bike, a Waterford sport tourer, and a Soma and Bob Jackson touring bikes. They are all nicely equipped, but the most I've spent on any of the frames was about $600. I ride close to 10,000 miles a year, and all of my bikes get a lot of use. I bike commute most days, and I've ridden all of my bikes to work. However, they are all better are certain kinds of riding. I wouldn't want to be restricted to a touring bike for all of my riding, no matter how nice it was. There is no way I could keep up with a fast group ride on my tourer, and my cross bike is more fun to ride on unpaved paths and roads.