FBinNY 

Yes, and nothing since, except for my last ditch option.

In any case I wonder if the shim solution is applicable to this frame.

I was hoping (and assume the OP was too) that someone familiar with the specific issue on this bike might have offered some insights based on prior experience. I guess not.

rustymongrel

What size frame do you ride? If you're on anything 58cm+ I would suggest "XL" tubing (35mm DT and 31.8mm TT/ST)

Looks better with the larger headtube and will be stiffer. A good builder could use the larger tubing in a thickness light enough that any weight gain would be negligible.

I would also recommend a steel fork with max fork blades, a little heavy but stupid stiff.

DMC707

Yes --- from everything I had heard, the Dolan's are great machines and totally worthy of going to a little bit of trouble to square them away --- and some of the guys' I know with them are in the 200# range for sure




I'm short and stocky -- 5'9 . My "race weight" BITD was 198 --- (BITD was 15 years in the past - now I weigh more - LOL )

------though I stopped worrying about how much track bikes weigh a looooong time ago when I picked up a Trimble built GT that a very prominent guy was riding, --- and it weighed 19+ lbs --- more than my steel bike at the time


Trying to harness big power (or in my case, a large amount of mass) takes a bit more material

carleton

My 57cm TK1 was 22lbs using carbon bars (33cm Alpina bars and 37cm Scattos) with race wheels and SRM:

One reason was the fork. It was overbuilt and heavy as hell. It weighed as much as a steel fork I had laying around.

I think Felt has redesigned that fork since.

My point is that even elite carbon frames are not lightweight. So, don't stress over weight.

BTs are heavier I think.

gycho77

BT with Mavic io and scatto set up is about 8kg(18lbs)
I might be wrong, but this is based on uci video
https://youtu.be/0jO80yeHGw0
Go to 1:20 for BT weight

Dalai

Went back to the Track Sprinting FB topic discussing the issue and it appears the new clamp hasn't helped.

That sounds too light. Can't recall the weight of my BT Stealth but she is heavy. Would suggest closer to 8.5kg or more...

queerpunk

I might have to engage in a bit of that trouble. My wife bought a used DF3 to replace her steel bike that was damaged in a crash at Nationals. Seems that the trackends are a bit tweaked. I can't spot the problem with my eye, but a wheel only smoothly enters the first half of the trackends. The second half, there's a ton of pinch or resistance somewhere - but I can't tell exactly where.

It's not a problem, per se, until we remove a link or two from the chain and try to bring that wheel in close - but I'd rather she didn't have to deal with it.

Any fixes/cures?

700wheel

First step is to define the cause. Using Vernier calipers measure the slot widths along the track ends and measure the inside distance between the track ends at various places. This should identify the cause.

Incidentally I had this issue with a new frame and found it was excess paint in the slots (also my non-treaded Cane Creek wheel axle had a slightly larger diameter than the threaded axles on other wheels).

queerpunk

^^^yeah, i'm missing some crucial information. i'm not sure if the trackends have squeezed further from the opening, or if the individual openings themselves have been deformed.

i'm hoping it's a problem i can solve with a wrench or a file.

Velocirapture

what are the trackends made of? Photos?

carleton

My Tiemeyer track ends used to have a similar problem after about a season or more of use. Basically, the nuts would pinch the ti so much that the soft ti would sort of mush inwards (top towards bottom and bottom towards top) a millimeter or so. So, when I would insert my rear wheel, the axle would have a sticking spot. I could feel it with my finger. I took a metal file and slightly filed top/bottom of both sides and it was good as new. I mean it was like maybe 3 strokes each side. Not much at all.

If that's not the issue, there were talks about some of the late-model DF3s having ends that would "alligator" apart from each other after a while. Basically the bottom part would stay put as the top part would stretch upwards.

So, imagine the bottom staying parallel as expected and the top stretching upwards from parallel like so:



I would guess that it was the rider's weight plus bumps against the rigid axle that caused that.

I read about all of this in the FB sprint forum (the brief few weeks I was on FB).

So, if it's the "alligator" issue, maybe the deformation of the ends are causing pinching somewhere.

carleton

Yeah, these would help.

There were at least 2 variations in design. One had the steel plates that were attached by screws (the kind we've all seen before). Later models (at the end of the product's life), they were solid and had sort of a gritty/sandy texture to them. I recall there being a 3rd variation but I forget what it was about. Gettin' old...

queerpunk

This is helpful! I've got the plated trackends:


I don't see any alligatoring, so I assume there's some slight in-mushing. I'd hoped it was that rather than, say, lack of horizontal consistency in the opening (ie that it wasn't 120mm side to side, along the length of the trackends).

I'll grab calipers, pop the wheel out, and do some measuring.

But, I'm glad to have the explication of two potential issues. Alligatoring sounds fairly frustrating and unfixable, and looking at the picture, with the trackends cantilevered out I can see the susceptibility. Seems like it would be nice to keep the wheels further forward in the trackends as a way to guard against that. And it makes sense why other companies (BT comes to mind) have the full length of the trackends supported from above by the seatstay.

queerpunk

Found this pic of somebody else's bike. Goodness that's some severe alligatoring.

Velocirapture

You've definitely got some alligatoring there, QP.

The red lines in the image below are identical lengths (copied and pasted). I know the photo is not at a right angle to the track-end, but with the open end actually further away, it will look (fractionally) smaller, not bigger, anyway.

Velocirapture

Further on the above, it actually looks like the central part is bowing in ever so slightly, as the ends are bowing out.

700wheel

This is a poor design trackend (in my opinion) - U-shaped steel over a skinny carbon cantilever combined with screw holes almost ensure bending and the alligator effect. I would be concerned that the carbon fiber under the U-shape steel might be damaged.

Or is the track end base material aluminum?

queerpunk

oh man! i always knew alligators were scary.
guess i'll file the mush away, pull a link out of the chain, and tell my sweetheart to keep the wheel far up in the trackends. good thing she's a skinny little whippet of a racer.

I wonder if some firm, persuasive clamping could de-alligator those suckers.