Tadashi

I need a good cycle computer for my track bike. I want it to be small, wireless and with cadence meter. Also not very expensive. Possible?

dutret

cadence meter? Just use a target speed instead of cadence.

I guess it really depends how you define cheap. Without cadence you can get it down to $20 or so. WIth you are probably looking at over $100. For anything other than really short intervals heart rate is as important as anything else though so consider getting a cheap hrm too.

Tadashi

Well, yes, I can judge my cadence from speed, so I guess I don't really need it.

I train for sprint, so I don't do long distances.

So, how much is a basic wireless cycle computer? Also, I should be able to put it on my stem (a quill one).

dutret

$20 but you;ll have to figure out how to get it on your stem yourself.

If you want one that's meant to mount on the stem it's going to limit your options a lot.

this will be the last time I tell you this but since you never acknowledged it before I will reiterate:

Track sprinters are born not made. If you are not blessed with the ability to easily add lots of fast twitch muscle trying to become a sprinter is going to be a very frusterating pursuit. Further the extreme specialization of track sprinting will limit your ability to take parts in other aspects of cycling. It's not like road sprinting where you have to train so that you can get through the rest of the race and the wind up before you can sprint.

If you have not been racing I highly suggest you work on a more generalized training program and then see where you should specialize later. I say this both as someone who tried hard to compete in disciplines that didn't suit my body for years and as someone who realizes the limits that sprint training has put on my general riding abilities. I love sprints but they aren't for eveyone.

Tadashi

I see your point. I'm not gonna overdo it, don't worry. I can't do what my body isn't able to. I'm just training for general track cycling, and then if I'm good, I'll train for sprint.

Could you recommend a specific model of a cycle computer that I can put on my stem?

CafeRacer

Blackburn Delphi 5.0 Simply amazing wireless computer. Nice big numbers to read, simple to use, and if you want to run cadence it comes with a second harness with the sensor wire to run down your frame.

San Rensho 

Ciclosport makes a wired cadence computer for $25 at Nashbar.

oldsprinter

Tadashi, I used a computer on my track bike for training, but I found it all but useless. You can't time youself with it because at the start and finish of your efforts you need to hold onto the bars.

You don't care about distance when you're track training.

When you're riding flat out it's all but impossible to read the screen.

And the one thing I really loved waas seeing what top speed I hit, until I realised that if your wheel skips during a 200m effort (which is common on a track bike) your computer can record some mad speeds.

Far better to buy a heartrate watch that links to your computer (try Polar), so you can gauge how well you trained after you finish.

ed073

+1

computer on track bike is as useful as an ashtray on a hang glider....

San Rensho 

Top speed is not important, but knowing what cadence you are at is invaluable for fine tuning gearing.

Tadashi

I'm a bit worried about my cadence, so that's why I need a speedometer. I guess I'll install a basic wireless cycle computer on my sprinter bike later (when I have money).

Yoshi

Don't get too caught up on what your cadence should be - rather find out what cadence is optimal for you. You've mentioned that you want to be a sprinter - this would imply that you will be pushing a larger gear than average and will probably have a slower cadence than most of the other people at the track.

dutret

wait, what???

Yoshi

What I mean is that some people get it into their heads that they should be spinning because they heard spinning is more efficient. This may be true, but some people are just better at mashing (like Jan Ullrich). If your faster mashing a high gear at a low cadence than spinning a low gear at a high cadence, which would you choose?

What I also mean is that Tadashi has stated that he wants to be a sprinter and most sprinters run a higher gearing on the track. This means that during a race, before the sprint, you're going to have a lower cadence.

dutret

While some sprinters may choose a higher gear for a scratch race since they'll just be sitting in till the final sprint I don't think that's general practice. More importantly track sprinters more then any other cyclists have absurd spins. Leg speed is just as important as strength since a gear that will allow you to jump from a trackstand is going to require ridiculous cadence to get up to 40. Anyway sprinters don't train much for the sitting in part. They train to sprint. And that training needs to include a lot of work on leg speed.

Yoshi

I completely agree with you. And yes, sprinters are going to need a high cadence in a high gear.

However I think my main point still stand - figure out what cadence works for you (if you are most efficient at 60 rpms then gear your bike accordingly, don't spin at 90 rpms because you're "supposed to").

I'm not saying cadence is unimportant or that Tadashi should work on spinning at high rpms - I'm just saying don't get hung up on it.

Edited because I know you are going to take what I said out of context and I really don't feel like arguing over absolutely nothing anymore.

dutret

whatever no matter what you are doing anyone who has only been cycling for a few months like the op needs to be working on cadence if they want to be competetive. Maybe if you have been a serious cyclist for decades you can say 60rpms is the way I roll but anyone just starting out should work develop better technique and part of that is focusing on cadence.

The fact that you would suggest someone with aspirations of being a sprinter need not work on cadence is just mind boggling. Forget 60 vs 90 rpms sprinters need to be thinking about 130 vs 150rpms. You can't change gears in the middle of a race on the track so you need to technique that gives you an incredibly wide power band.

Tadashi

Hey guys, I was at Seibuen Velodrome yesterday. I trained with keirin guys on my keirin bike. I was spinning 50/16 and they said that it's recommended for a novice. The guy said he's warming up on 46/14 for 20 laps (each lap is 400m). At the end of the day I said that I still have a lot of stamina, so he stopped me, took out a a large truck tire from the middle of the track, attached it via a rope to my seat post and said "ride then". I managed to do 2 laps with it. He said that the tire is 10 kg (22lbs) and people train 20 laps with it. Some attach even 2 tires. He told me lots about training. He suggested that I go to mountains and train climbing (in high gear!). He suggested that I put some heavy stuff in my backpack and ride with it and so on. So, I guess this is the Japanese way of training. Anyway, in 3 days there will be kind of teaching seminar at the other velodrome, aimed at novices who want to become keirin racers. I'll attend it and they'll teach me basics and all. This stuff is gonna be hard.

So, on topic. I saw cycle computers on some of the bikes. But now I don't see the point of it. If I'm gonna climb steep hills in high gear, pull truck tires, ride with barbells in my backback and torture myself in other ways, then the cadence is not important.

operator

False.

DB4LW-C with cadence $25 CAD at MEC.

https://www.mec.ca/Products/product_d...34374302693003

oldsprinter

Tadashi, don't overdo the training. You'll feel good for the first few weeks of hard training, but then it hits you.

The stuff you've been doing is 1970s style training. But it won't hurt you unless you do too much.

Actually, the one of the guys who won Olympic gold at the Sydney Games trained with a backpack with bricks in it when he was young. BUT, the other thing he did was buy a heart rate monitor - even before he had a good bike, to make sure he was training at the right level every day.

bikejack

+1 And who hasn't wanted to smoke while they're hang gliding.



For general types of training you're better to have a meter that is out of sight and can be downloaded after to analyse what you have been doing rather than riding around trying to make the numbers move to were you think they should be.

Reading a meter is an instant gratification thang and won't really detect if your training is effective, you can easily deceive yourself.

Tadashi

Thanks for the information. It's very interesting. I almost thought that the Japanese developed all these types of hard training.

Anyway, since I want to train for keirin, I'll have to follow this style of training. I rode 80km (50 miles) today with a 5kg (11lbs) barbell in my backpack on a 48/17 gear (my keirin bike awaits clincher training wheels, so I rode another one). It was ok. The summer heat and strong wind were a bit annoying, but not that much. The gear is low, I guess, I'll change it for 48/16. The weight is ok, hills got hard. But in around a month, I think I'll put 22lbs in my backpack.

I'm planning to ride 25 miles (maybe more, but I think it's better to take it easy in the beginning) with 11lbs in my back pack on the same gear tomorrow. Have to train everyday. Gonna train hard.

Yes, since I don't need a cycle computer now (I guess), I'll buy a heart rate monitor. It should be very valuable for this kind of training. Any suggestions on which one to get?

Yoshi

You're absolutely right. I wasn't thinking about how new Tadashi was to track racing, and now is a good time to get into good habits and working on cadence is important to that.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never suggested he not work on cadence. I just said don't get hung up on it. A lot of this was in reference to another post in this thread in which someone said that top speed isn't important, cadence is (with regards to a cycle computer). Now of course this doesn't matter much for a track bike since cadence and speed are directly tied to each other, and in general if you are trying to figure out your optimal gearing and you are faster in one configuration than another, you'll probably want to use that over a gearing that puts you in the "right" cadence.

That's really all I meant. But if it will make you happier (since I'm sure you've pretty much ignored everything else I've said in this post): YOU ARE RIGHT AND I AM WRONG.

Yoshi

All of these things will make you a lot stronger but they won't necessarily make you faster or a better sprinter. I'm not saying don't do them but you should also work on things like riding at a moderate pace for a few minutes and then sprinting really hard for a few seconds, then go back to riding at a moderate pace. Repeat this a few times.

You'll definitely need strong legs in order to sprint, but you also need to have very quick reaction time and acceleration (which is tied to cadence). Make sure you train for that as well.

yonderboy

Since you're just starting out, you should probably focus on building base before you start with your strength training. A lot of the keirin guys you're riding with have spent the entire winter on rollers, so doing their workouts without the solid aerobic system to back it up won't be beneficial to you. Go on long rides (2+ hrs) and focus on keeping aerobic the entire time.

Try starting a periodic training plan, like the one outlined here. There are several other plans out there if you hunt around for them. The big thing is to have a micro-cycle for your weekly training and a macro-cycle for your season.

I've found a cyclocomputer with cadence is beneficial when doing roller training. There are many cadence drills you can do with your track bike and the rollers. Having that metric makes things easier for focusing your workouts.