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Question for the resident vegans & vegetarians:

Old 05-10-16, 01:48 PM
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Question for the resident vegans & vegetarians:

Two years ago, I cut out most processed foods and refined sugar from my diet. I also really limited most grains as well. I recently started to consume more fresh (and dried) fruit as well as fresh veggies, I've been introducing (slowly) whole grains and so forth. My big problem is extreme bloating and nasty gas!

Will this go away? Should I be eating more sources of protein? I am still eating meat maybe three times a week, eggs about every day and I may drink a protein shake every now and again. My goal is to not go totally vegetarian at this time, but limit my meat intake a bit, at least for now. I can see myself eating only fish and eggs instead of red meat and poultry in the future. But the gas and bloating have to stop! Its bad. Really bad!

Thoughts? Suggestions?
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Old 05-10-16, 02:05 PM
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extreme bloating could be a sign of other digestive issues. normally upping your fiber might make you feel a little more bloated, but usually that settles out after a bit. it might be time for some gas x or other OTC anti gas product. also various probiotics can help bring some balance to your system. it also might be time to take very specific stock of your food intake and sources of that food.

how long have you been eating more fruits/veggies? what specific foods? soluble and insoluble fiber work differently in your gut. your body will adjust to an increased fiber intake within a few months. if it's not getting better in a few weeks, maybe talk to a doctor or nutritionist. for some people certain nonfood additives can be triggers, like artificial sweeteners for example. volume could also be an issue if you are overeating because you are eating lower calorie foods and are not yet used to the lower overall intake of volume and calories.

can you be more specific about the exact foods you're eating? what specific fruits and veggies, where are they sourced from, etc. also, raw tree nuts are a great alternative and veggie friendly source of protein and fats.
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Old 05-10-16, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
also various probiotics can help bring some balance to your system.
I actually got a probiotic from Plexus. I haven't tried it yet.
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Old 05-10-16, 03:04 PM
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I use both probiotics (now brand) and prebiotic (Inulin, now brand). Probably a good idea. I used to fart like crazy when I started with natural foods. Cutting out almost all onion really helped. I asked my doctor about it. His response: "Elephants eat a tremendous amount of fiber. They fart a lot." I think it'll gradually get better. Mine has. Do try cutting back on the onion. Dried and powdered onion were particularly deadly. I don't think your protein intake has anything to do with it, just the increased fiber in your diet, which is all good except for those sitting or lying next to you.
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Old 05-10-16, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post

how long have you been eating more fruits/veggies? what specific foods?

can you be more specific about the exact foods you're eating?

I eat something about every two hours. Usually start off with coffee, a piece of fruit (apple or banana) and a hard-boiled egg. Later could be some protein (can of tuna or baked chicken) and fruit/veggie. Lunch was a protein shake and some apricots. hammered another banana about mid afternoon. All day long I am snacking on mixed nuts, dates and/or raisins. Supper I will eat a semi-normal meal with the family, but my meat portion will be smaller and heavier on cooked veggies. Again, I keep dates and mixed nuts at hand for evening snacking.

I drink water and club soda (no sugars). V8 juice when I fancy. Want to try to incorporate more grains in the coming weeks. I'm on my second week of eating like this.
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Old 05-10-16, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by steve-in-kville View Post
I eat something about every two hours. Usually start off with coffee, a piece of fruit (apple or banana) and a hard-boiled egg. Later could be some protein (can of tuna or baked chicken) and fruit/veggie. Lunch was a protein shake and some apricots. hammered another banana about mid afternoon. All day long I am snacking on mixed nuts, dates and/or raisins. Supper I will eat a semi-normal meal with the family, but my meat portion will be smaller and heavier on cooked veggies. Again, I keep dates and mixed nuts at hand for evening snacking.

I drink water and club soda (no sugars). V8 juice when I fancy. Want to try to incorporate more grains in the coming weeks. I'm on my second week of eating like this.
You might cut back on the fruit a little and switch that out for veggies. You might try going for 3 days with no fruit at all and see if that's it. If so, reintroduce one at a time. I'd stick with fresh fruit. I'd include dates in that group, but not raisins.
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Old 05-10-16, 06:54 PM
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+1, you may be suffering from some fructose malabsorption.
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Old 05-10-16, 08:27 PM
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not that it would contribute necessarily to your gas, but snacking all day and evening on mixed nuts and dried fruits is basically a calorie bomb. it is extremely easy to overeat on tree nuts. just a handful is a couple hundred calories. try cutting back your calories in general.

also, I think the "eat every two hours" thing is bull. personally, I find it leads to me overeating a ton. I actually practice a mild form of intermittent fasting, and I fast for a minimum of 12-16 hours every single day. I do all of my morning workouts/rides fasted, and never eat anything substantial within 2 hours of a ride less than 30 miles. If I do it's some form of sugar, like a banana or small piece of chocolate and some light agave nectar and water on the ride.

I find this makes my digestion and "movements" much more regular. personally when I eat as much and as often as you are, I also feel extremely bloated all the time. let yourself empty out for a bit and you might feel better lol!
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Old 05-10-16, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
not that it would contribute necessarily to your gas, but snacking all day and evening on mixed nuts and dried fruits is basically a calorie bomb. it is extremely easy to overeat on tree nuts. just a handful is a couple hundred calories. try cutting back your calories in general.

also, I think the "eat every two hours" thing is bull. personally, I find it leads to me overeating a ton. I actually practice a mild form of intermittent fasting, and I fast for a minimum of 12-16 hours every single day. I do all of my morning workouts/rides fasted, and never eat anything substantial within 2 hours of a ride less than 30 miles. If I do it's some form of sugar, like a banana or small piece of chocolate and some light agave nectar and water on the ride.

I find this makes my digestion and "movements" much more regular. personally when I eat as much and as often as you are, I also feel extremely bloated all the time. let yourself empty out for a bit and you might feel better lol!
Are you saying that you don't eat even after a ride? Or just for 2 hours prior?
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Old 05-10-16, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
Are you saying that you don't eat even after a ride? Or just for 2 hours prior?
I don't eat anything substantial 2 hours prior. I always eat at least something, if not a full meal, in the recovery window, usually within an hour after I top up fluids. If I ride during my fasting window, I don't eat.

I usually fast from 10pm to noon the next day, or somewhere in that window, for a total of 12-16 hours each day. I usually ride to work, which is between 7-20 miles depending on my route, and I still don't eat until noon. I only consume water and black coffee. Then I usually have a light meal of mostly fruit and mixed nuts or cottage cheese or eggs or some lighter protein. Then a midday ride or run, then my first substantial food around 2 or 3. Commute home followed by a real dinner of whatever, usually reasonably well balanced, but definitely a much larger meal than the rest of the day. Then dessert/evening snacks or beer until I stop somewhere between 8pm and midnight, but usually around 9-10, at which point I fast until noon the next day.

I like this method because it allows me to digest fully and I feel it makes me more regular. Also, I feel much lighter and snappier, and I find when I'm not full my mind is sharper and I train more effectively and never feel sluggish. I also enjoy cooking and eating large/rich meals, and this plan allows me to basically eat a full and balanced but unrestricted meal in the evening because I have not consumed those calories during the day.

I'm not super strict about it however, and I think that it's important to listen to your body. If I'm dying before a planned long ride, I eat a little something. If I'm not hungry, I don't. It does take time and practice to develop this flexibility and discipline. I used to over eat a lot. Now I only do it sometimes, and I can recognize myself doing it, which is more than half the battle.
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Old 05-10-16, 09:01 PM
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Lol, @ypsetihw, that's quite an answer.

I was just asking because I do most workouts fasted but always consume pro + carbs immediately post-ride, my concern being that I don't want to compromise recovery.
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Old 05-11-16, 02:50 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I tracked my calories and I am hovering around 1500/day. So I am not over-doing it.

I took the probiotic before bed last night and I woke up feeling a lot better than I have the past few mornings (ever try riding to work with gut cramps?!) I'll post an update later this afternoon.
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Old 05-11-16, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
Lol, @ypsetihw, that's quite an answer.

I was just asking because I do most workouts fasted but always consume pro + carbs immediately post-ride, my concern being that I don't want to compromise recovery.
I have been accused of being long winded in the past lol

I'm still carrying around plenty of pro/fat/carbs that I've been storing onboard since winter :-)
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Old 05-11-16, 02:28 PM
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Probiotics are needed with such a diet. Your gut bacteria becomes depleted. You'll have to experiment with how many billion good bacteria you need to control your issue. There are natural ways to get the bacteria you need. If you consider yourself vegetarian you can try yogurt, cottage cheese, whey and Kefir. If you consider yourself a vegan you can try pickled or fermented veggies, soy sauce, tempeh, or miso. And again, you'll need to experiment. You might need to include Probiotics even if you add the foods above.
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Old 05-11-16, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by steve-in-kville View Post
Thanks for the replies. I tracked my calories and I am hovering around 1500/day. So I am not over-doing it.
1500/day is insane and unsustainable for most men. how big are you and how small are you trying to get? do you want to protect muscle or just lose weight fast? how much are you riding? for reference, I'm 6' around 200 and my maintenance, without counting cycling, is 2500. I usually eat consume more like 3000. On big riding days I don't even count them.

I'm 6' and about 200 right now, and right I put in 15-35 a day, with a big day up to 50 every week. I accomplish this with commuting, lunch rides, and a fast group ride each week. I eat. A lot. When I train this much without eating a ton, especially carbs, I literally run myself into the ground. Last summer I got into a bad over-training situation that took weeks to shake.
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Old 05-11-16, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ypsetihw View Post
1500/day is insane and unsustainable for most men. how big are you and how small are you trying to get?
I'm 5'2". I was 189 two years ago. I hover around 160 right now. I would like to drop another 20 but I'm really not in a hurry to loose weight, as it is slowly coming off so as it is. Right now I commute less than 10 miles/day round trip. I am not doing training/leisure rides at the moment as I am busy in my garden (yeah, I push a wheel barrow around!). I work in a warehouse so I am pretty active and on my feet all day.

I am simply experimenting with cleaner ways of eating.
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Old 05-11-16, 06:08 PM
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The culprits are high fiber and sugars that are poorly absorbed. By "sugar" I mean "type of compound" and this has little to do with what people think of when "cutting out sugar." The latter is often referred to as FODMAPs these days for short. This blog gives a good overview of what that means (just the best reference I could find, nothing to do with the site's diet recommendations).

Some people just need to start with slowly introducing these foods, eating small quantities and building up to more as the gut adjusts. That's my recommendation for you. Some may be truly intolerant to one or more of these sugarsólactose intolerance and fructose intolerance are the most widely-known manifestations. Since you mention protein shakes, I'll also toss out dairy protein (whey or casein) intolerance.

You say you're on the second week of this. How much have you changed your diet? You listed a few things, but in exact terms what would you have eaten on this day three weeks ago, and what did you eat today? What does your "semi-normal" dinner look like? How does it differ from what you ate three weeks ago?

The gut doesn't like rapid change, but it will adjust. You may discover a previously-hidden problem with digesting foods and need to change your eating habits to adjust to that.
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Old 05-11-16, 06:16 PM
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Didn't think of mentioning this until now, but check out my other recent thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...etabolism.html

I recently quit drinking after struggling with it for quite some time. This may answer some of the above questions.
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Old 05-11-16, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by steve-in-kville View Post
Didn't think of mentioning this until now, but check out my other recent thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...etabolism.html

I recently quit drinking after struggling with it for quite some time. This may answer some of the above questions.
I just occurred to me that it's possible that this might have something to do with your liver. Fructose is metabolized in the liver. If you have some liver damage, that's not good.
Fructose malabsorption may cause gastrointestinal symptoms such as abdominal pain, bloating, flatulence, or diarrhea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose_malabsorption
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Old 05-11-16, 06:50 PM
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Nope. Had bloodwork done. All systems are good.
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Old 05-13-16, 11:09 AM
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+1 to the probiotics suggestion. When I became vegan I noticed that I was getting a lot of bloating/gas.I assumed it was due to gut microbiome not being optimal for the much higher fiber and carbohydrate diet. What I did to treat it with pretty good success was a few fold.
1) Start brewing your own kombucha or other fermented foods. I'm vegan so yogurt was out.
2) Chew on tea tree oil toothpicks for about a week. The package likely warns against overuse causing diarrhea, this is because of tea tree oil's strong antimicrobial activity.
3) While you're letting the tea tree oil do work on your gut microbiome, you want to increase your fiber intake, be it through foods or supplements. I'm talking 40g+ of fiber a day. (At this point I also added drinking a bentonite clay mix before bed and upon waking. You will literally **** bricks so be warned.)
4) After this tea tree oil cleanse, continue to eat high fiber diet and make sure you are getting a serving of fermented food every day.

This is what worked for me to reduce the bloating and gas. Took care of it in about a week. In an ideal world you could get a fecal transplant from someone who already eats your new diet to avoid the side effects of drastically changing your diet but I am not sure how many people would want to have a fecal transplant.
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Old 05-13-16, 03:51 PM
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If your vegan diet is giving you problems and making your life miserable then it means you're following a wrong type of a diet. Eating should be an enjoyable and pleasant experience.
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Old 05-13-16, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cb750 View Post
...... but I am not sure how many people would want to have a fecal transplant.
I'll stick to the probiotics.
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Old 05-13-16, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
If your vegan diet is giving you problems and making your life miserable then it means you're following a wrong type of a diet. Eating should be an enjoyable and pleasant experience.
OP isn't a vegan.
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Old 05-17-16, 08:37 AM
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If you're going to massively increase your fiber intake you should also massively increase your water intake. Helps move things along. Probably won't solve your problem overnight, but it being properly hydrated will just make every system work better.
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