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How to Over Come OTS

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Old 07-04-17, 08:30 AM
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CanadianBiker32
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How to Over Come OTS

What would be good methods to overcome OTS? overtraining syndrome?
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Old 07-04-17, 10:23 AM
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Take a break from training.
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Old 07-04-17, 12:36 PM
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Do we really need a three-letter acronym for overtraining?
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There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
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Old 07-04-17, 02:31 PM
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As I recall, you don't eat a very healthy diet at all.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Do we really need a three-letter acronym for overtraining?
OVTS?


Lol
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Old 07-04-17, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by brianmcg123 View Post
OVTS?


Lol
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Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
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Old 07-04-17, 04:42 PM
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Doesn't anyone have useful advice/information? Anyone every been there? I've never been as bad off as this guy. Worst I've had it was finding I was grabbing lower gears and no HR, but got over it in a couple weeks and went on to have a fine summer, so overreaching, not classic overtraining. And yes, classic overtraining is a medical syndrome, commonly abbreviated OTS.

One thing I'd say in way of prevention I that I think the OP's HR zones might be too high. A Z1 top of 150 implies to me a LTHR of ~190, which seems awfully high for a 39 y.o. guy. IIRC, back in the pre-PEDS days, Lance recovered between races with recovery roller rides at a 114 HR when his max must have been around 220.
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Old 07-04-17, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Doesn't anyone have useful advice/information?
Post #2 pretty much said all there is to say.
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Old 07-04-17, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Post #2 pretty much said all there is to say.
Yes, he knows he needs a break. How long? What kind of break do you advise? Doing what during the break? What's your advice for knowing when training can be resumed? And how to prevent this happening again?
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Old 07-04-17, 10:41 PM
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Well I did make a suggestion.

I think he needs to focus on improving his diet. Look back through his previous posts ... he posts about having an atrocious diet and not knowing what in the world he should be eating.

I also think he needs to join a bicycle club and start working with a coach who can get him onto a decent training plan ... something he can stick to. If you look back through his previous posts, you'll see lots of repeated questions about what he should be doing.

But he doesn't seem to take any of our advice. I suspect that's why people have grown weary of answering his questions. <<shrug>>

He also posts these questions in another forum I frequent, and doesn't take their advice either, so it's not just us.


Meanwhile, he wants to be a race director ...
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Old 07-04-17, 11:23 PM
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As a frequent and incorrigible overreacher, I can offer this: don't stop riding, but be careful about intensity. I use both HR and power, and make efforts to keep 80% of rides in Z2 for HR and below 70% intensity for power. A minimum of one off day per week. Riding solo it's pretty easy to just go out and hammer every day until I notice that I can't get my HR above 125, and the first thing I want to do after I park the bike is fall asleep.

Overtrained is a medical condition that will require months of recovery, and should be diagnosed and addressed by a physician.
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Old 07-05-17, 07:45 AM
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no need to make fun of this guy, just as yes i do follow advice, and instruction but things or more less the end result doesnt go as planned so always looking for a new idea to maybe this time the perfect race might happen, sorry if you found i wasted everyone;s time.
never intended that way, several of you have been a big help to say the least
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Old 07-05-17, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Well I did make a suggestion.

I think he needs to focus on improving his diet. Look back through his previous posts ... he posts about having an atrocious diet and not knowing what in the world he should be eating.

I also think he needs to join a bicycle club and start working with a coach who can get him onto a decent training plan ... something he can stick to. If you look back through his previous posts, you'll see lots of repeated questions about what he should be doing.

But he doesn't seem to take any of our advice. I suspect that's why people have grown weary of answering his questions. <<shrug>>

He also posts these questions in another forum I frequent, and doesn't take their advice either, so it's not just us.


Meanwhile, he wants to be a race director ...
IME diet is a very minor issue. I've ridden with the same strong riders for many years. Some of them eat "well," some of them eat fast food, with potato chips and beer for dinner. Doesn't seem to make any difference, as long as they are getting their macros satisfied. One of the bachelors finally found the right woman who happens to be an excellent French cook. His performance did not improve and he didn't even gain weight. Still the same lean, strong rider.

Eating well probably is good for long term health and lifespan, but that's basically unproven also. Besides the famous guy with the MacDonalds movie Super Size Me, there's also the guy who ate the proper number of calories, all at MacDonalds for months and lost 56 lbs.: Man loses 56 pounds after eating only McDonald's for six months - TODAY.com

The advice to hire a coach is right to the point. We can't possibly coach him from here, besides not having any interest in doing so. Coaching = accountability, which is lacking here.
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Old 07-05-17, 10:44 AM
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Didn't the OP have a coach at one point?
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Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
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Old 07-05-17, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
IME diet is a very minor issue. I've ridden with the same strong riders for many years. Some of them eat "well," some of them eat fast food, with potato chips and beer for dinner. Doesn't seem to make any difference, as long as they are getting their macros satisfied. One of the bachelors finally found the right woman who happens to be an excellent French cook. His performance did not improve and he didn't even gain weight. Still the same lean, strong rider.

Eating well probably is good for long term health and lifespan, but that's basically unproven also. Besides the famous guy with the MacDonalds movie Super Size Me, there's also the guy who ate the proper number of calories, all at MacDonalds for months and lost 56 lbs.: Man loses 56 pounds after eating only McDonald's for six months - TODAY.com

The advice to hire a coach is right to the point. We can't possibly coach him from here, besides not having any interest in doing so. Coaching = accountability, which is lacking here.
Based on his past posts about diet, I'm not sure he is getting his macros satisfied. From what I recall, I don't think it is a matter of eating fast food vs eating the way the French eat ... it's more a matter of eating vs. not eating or just knocking back a few power bars now and then.

Perhaps he is not eating enough protein and carbs after a hard effort to recover.
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Old 07-05-17, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Do we really need a three-letter acronym for overtraining?
APPALLING: Acronym Production, Particularly At Lavish Levels, Is Not Good.
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Old 07-15-17, 06:25 PM
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seems OTS has come back, i did a 150k right last week and now i am paying for it
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Old 07-15-17, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadianBiker32 View Post
seems OTS has come back, i did a 150k right last week and now i am paying for it

Go to a Dr ... get a complete physical.
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Old 07-15-17, 07:22 PM
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Fatigue ≠ overtraining
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Old 07-16-17, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadianBiker32 View Post
seems OTS has come back, i did a 150k right last week and now i am paying for it
You don't overtrain from one ride.

I overtrained one winter over the course of ~ 5 months. Started off at 17 hours a week and added two hours each week until I was at 29 hours. That was actual overtraining.

Took 6+ months to actually be able to ride halfway again, and a full year to return to normal.

I don't think you're experiencing that.
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Old 07-16-17, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
I overtrained one winter over the course of ~ 5 months. Started off at 17 hours a week and added two hours each week until I was at 29 hours. That was actual overtraining.

Took 6+ months to actually be able to ride halfway again, and a full year to return to normal.
My experience was similar. Got caught up in the "longest streak" on Veloviewer, and rode 70 straight days without much of a recovery day included-- and at a simply unsustainable intensity. Wrecked for ~3 months, down on power for 6, and just returning to normal now, about 10 months later.
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Old 07-16-17, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadianBiker32 View Post
What would be good methods to overcome OTS? overtraining syndrome?

Popcorn and TV? Not serious...hey I overworked dancing and cheering at a 5 hour triple bill concert Friday. I came a guy from Oregon and left A Man Named Hoarse.
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Old 07-16-17, 07:21 PM
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I had mild to severe over-training symptoms after a heavy training/race cycle combined with extremely high-stress working environment. I knew something was wrong when my awakening heartrate was all over the place and I realized lost almost 11% of my bodyweight over the course of 4 weeks while performing well and eating a ton. Turns out I was just hitting my peak before crashing spectacularly. My overtraining took 5 months to happen. It was a slow process wherein every week I would add a little more fatigue and stress and recover just a little less until my body just quit. I was in the middle of a race and just stopped, my brain just shut it down. I got off my bike, called my partner to come get me and laid in the shade listening to my heart drum in my ears. Didn't look at my bike for almost 2 weeks, didn't ride for 3 months.

Stop riding - this is variable, mine took 3 months before I was able to sustain high heartrate efforts and work on getting back to my "normal" w/kg.

Sleep - sleep as often and as much as you can.

Don't engage in high heartrate activities. My physical activity was limited to brisk walking for a few weeks before I was cleared to hike and play other sports. Long-duration high-intensity aerobic efforts (running, cycling, etc.) were not to be done until recovered.

Stretch, foam roll, yoga; something to engage the body with little stress or heartrate elevation.

Reduce stress any way you can. I believe a big part of mine was the 2 hour commute I was doing every day. I moved closer to work and it's been a big improvement in my personal well being, and that extends to riding as well.

Ben Greenfield is kind of a quack but his page here is very close to the things my sports physiologist went over with me: https://greenfieldfitnesssystems.com...-overtraining/
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Old 07-16-17, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
I had mild to severe over-training symptoms after a heavy training/race cycle combined with extremely high-stress working environment. I knew something was wrong when my awakening heartrate was all over the place and I realized lost almost 11% of my bodyweight over the course of 4 weeks while performing well and eating a ton. Turns out I was just hitting my peak before crashing spectacularly. My overtraining took 5 months to happen. It was a slow process wherein every week I would add a little more fatigue and stress and recover just a little less until my body just quit. I was in the middle of a race and just stopped, my brain just shut it down. I got off my bike, called my partner to come get me and laid in the shade listening to my heart drum in my ears. Didn't look at my bike for almost 2 weeks, didn't ride for 3 months.

Stop riding - this is variable, mine took 3 months before I was able to sustain high heartrate efforts and work on getting back to my "normal" w/kg.

Sleep - sleep as often and as much as you can.

Don't engage in high heartrate activities. My physical activity was limited to brisk walking for a few weeks before I was cleared to hike and play other sports. Long-duration high-intensity aerobic efforts (running, cycling, etc.) were not to be done until recovered.

Stretch, foam roll, yoga; something to engage the body with little stress or heartrate elevation.

Reduce stress any way you can. I believe a big part of mine was the 2 hour commute I was doing every day. I moved closer to work and it's been a big improvement in my personal well being, and that extends to riding as well.

Ben Greenfield is kind of a quack but his page here is very close to the things my sports physiologist went over with me: https://greenfieldfitnesssystems.com...-overtraining/
For the OP's comparison, how many hours a week were you riding/training when you were becoming overtrained?
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Old 07-17-17, 07:00 AM
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15 hours a week training on my bike broken out as:

6 hours riding on my own, a mix of shorter intervals, 2x20s, hill climbs and other training
4 hours fast paced group riding
2 hours of training crit
3 hours of road racing or if no racing 3 hours of riding on my own

I was also hiking between 7-10 hours a week.

The biggest thing was that I was riding every single day and keeping the above schedule for months on end. Almost every ride had a lot of really hard efforts. I bought into the myth of the "recovery ride" and just didn't think I needed to stop riding like that. It was also an outlet for difficult working situation so there was additional motivation to ride every day as it was a strong coping mechanism. All I did was ride, eat, sleep and work. Definitely a mental health component but its harder to figure that part out.

Like I mentioned above, everything was going really well until it wasn't. The signs were there but it was easy to ignore them as I was getting faster until "all the sudden" I wasn't.
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