It's most challenging for people who are used to grazing all day or addicted to eating 6-7 meals per day. It's not that hard for somebody who has made a lifestyle out of it and is conditioned to dealing with a little bit of hunger. Also, keeping active and having some kind of a goal during fasting days makes it easier to deal with than just sitting and doing nothing.

You keep saying this as though it offers any sort of evidence or proof of the efficacy of IF beyond what I stated. It doesn't.

In this video Dr. Zyrowski talks about not being too strict about IF. This is something that I've recently started to recognize more and how important it can be to allow myself at least one day/wk to take a break and eat my favorite foods.

Because sugar was (is) my biggest weakness, and the reason I began this protocol in the first place, I use that time to indulge myself with something sweet. It can be something like pancakes or waffles with real maple syrup, or as simple as a cup or two of coffee sweet. This way I can still enjoy the foods I like without feeling guilty. I just keep it within reason.

My sugar intake used to be massive (mostly from fruit juices which I love), but thanks to IF and a more healthy diet I've been able to reduce that by over 80%. Like the doctor in this video, I practice all of the habits I suggest.




Actually, that was me, at first. But it gets easier once you get over that hunger hump and your body realizes that you're not starving. Those signals can be powerful but it not real.[/quote]Also, keeping active and having some kind of a goal during fasting days makes it easier to deal with than just sitting and doing nothing.Yep, keeping active is the key. Once you stop thinking about food and focus on your normal daily activities, time flies. Some times I go past 24 hours before I realize its time to eat. Which brings me to one other huge benefit of IF I failed to mention -- a much lower food bill.

Actually, that was me...when I first began. I had bought into the idea that you needed to eat 6-7 (smaller) meals/day in order to lose weight or stay lean. Not that that might not work for some, but this is an IF thread.


In other news, I just completed my usual weight training session without any noticeable loss of performance. What makes that newsworthy is I had done so near the end of my (second) 30 hour fast -- and didn't died.

At first I didn't think I had the energy or the willpower to stave off hunger for that long, let alone have the energy to train with weights. But to my surprise, it was much easier than the first time. As I'm typing this, it's been 32.5 hours and I still haven't had anything to eat yet.

The first time I tried this I was as ravenous as a wolf at this point, and counting down the minutes until it was time to eat like a pig. The worst part of feeling like that is you tend to overeat and erase most of the benefits of your fast. I say most, because IF can still offer something no other diet alone can: a clean digestive system. That alone is worth the price of admission.

Thing is, we all need to take our digestive system "off-line" every now and then and give it a chance to do a complete cleansing -- which it can't do if there's always something in your stomach.

It can take 4-5 hours for food to clear your stomach, and average about 30 hours for a total transit. I had a salad and 1/2 chicken breast as my last meal yesterday. Even if you have no faith in IF as an assistant to your diet, at least we can all count on its cleansing capability without argument.

Anyway, just don't try this for the first time when you need to be on-call. Start your fast on Friday or your days off. Some folks (including me) can get pretty grumpy when they're hungry. So first see how it affects your mood a home, then move forward from there. And on that note, I have to go prepare something to eat now. Good luck!

This is one of the reasons why I prefer to eat larger meals less frequently. I eat 3 meals per day spaced 5-6 hours apart and I never snack in between... I just hate eating 6-7 times per day every 2-3 hours...Eating less frequently allows your body to absorb the food a lot more efficiently...Eating protein too often is bad and it can make your body resistant to protein absorption and protein synthesis and when that happens most of the protein you eat will get wasted.

Your statement has merit. But even drugs that are the most rigorously tested substances in our society, and have been put on the market have fail over time. The study of nutrition is a relatively new science, so we're learning new things every day. That's why so many things about it seem to keep changing all the time.

Still, that's no reason to completely ignore or deny at least some correlation between one thing and the other. Just consider Capt. Cook and how he learned to prevent scurvy. He didn't have any advanced labs, scanning equipment or test group, just his wits and observation. If we waited until we were absolutely sure through research and testing, it would take a lifetime and some unethical practices before we could begin to see results. I'm glad you pointed that out. But obtaining research is a very arduous and time consuming chore. In addition, most research is just data that has to be interpreted and put into meaningful terms most people can understand. It gives us some general level of understanding about how things work, but does not always apply those results towards the average unrestrained individual. When I find a video that does the interpretation well, I post it. Its meant to be informative, not perfect. I'm learning here too.


Another reason for my posts is to give a real-world example of some results the average person can expect; and to answer some questions from experiences I've had that the research may leave out. Such as, What does it feel like when you're fasting? Or, How do you deal with the environment and stress of overcoming hunger? Where the research is static, a thread is dynamic.


In any event, the research is written to peers with a lot of technobabble that is simply way beyond the average individual. If this were a professional website with all scientist, things would be much different. Speaking of protein that's a another subject that could have its own thread. Some much research has gone into that about what is enough or too much and whether its harmful or not. Even the research results are all over the place on that one. At the moment, the heath community seems to know more about the subject than the scientist.

I have been browsing this (very long) post for a while and suspect my answer is buried But nothing jumped out so here's my question.

I have been pleased with my use of IF (16:8, with the 8 hours starting at midday). Given that I am someone who likes to nibble through the day (and traditionally doesn't have the strongest of wills!), I have been amazed at how easy this has been for me and now have no issue whatsoever getting through the 16 hours. In the 8 hours I have pretty much anything I like (though I do tend to eat reasonably healthy food, I guess).

In the last 5 weeks I have lost 9 lbs, which has really pleased me. I am about 5 lbs off where I want to be for a big ride I have coming up in a couple of weeks (the Whistler Gran Fondo Forte). But now I am starting to think about the day itself.

Given that there is an early start (around 6am) and Cypress Mountain is early in that ride, know I won't want to be doing that while fasting.

So, with that said, how much of a shock to the system is it to deviate from what, by then, will be 2-3 months of not eating till midday? Is this something I should gradually transition out of, leading up to the day, starting around now (12 days to go). Or is it feasible to just not worry about it until 2-3 days before and stop the fasting at that time?

By the way, after the ride I fully intend to get back to IM within a day or so. I can't actually remember trying anything that has dropped the pounds so easily!

Thanks!

Part of the current weight loss is partially depleted glycogen stores and the water that is associated with that. IF will always have you in a partially depleted state. The great thing about IF and the adaptions associated with it are they continue to work even in a non fasted state. I'd spend at least 4-5 days building up the glycogen stores and getting back onto a nonfasted meal pattern so you can be fully loaded prior to your A ride/race and not get behind on your nutrition to start the even since you won't be able to recover if you do. You'll still have most of the benefits of higher fat burning and increased insulin sensitivity during the ride and any weight gain will be temporary.

Thank you - I appreciate the response. So it sounds like you are saying that if I transition to normal (non-fasting) patterns this coming weekend, that will likely be long enough in advance (my ride is the following weekend). That makes things nice and tidy

The funny thing is that I really enjoy the fasting now. I do tend to look forward to midday each day (merely because I like food!), but it's amazing to me how little appetite I have generally. I have no problem at all skipping breakfast now and, in fact, it is very common for me to actually forget to eat at midday, even after 16 hours without food. Last Wednesday, I was working on something and realized at 3:30pm that I hadn't eaten a thing. Given my previous eating habits (quite the grazer here!), that is astonishing to me!!!

Thank you again.

In preparation for a hard or long duration work-out I'd say the #1 mistake is changing your eating plan, i.e. if it is working for you don't change it. (#2 would be going out too fast.) I've been IF'ing for some 4 years or so, if I was planning a tough century I might taper distance work-outs the week before and increase fats and starches in my evenings meals, but that's about it. Otherwise, I'd pack a few bars, chews to take along if I started to feel punky.

Going 18 hours without food is no big deal once you get use to it. I ran a half marathon in a fasted state, without training for it. If I was a competitive racer I might think about it differently, and I might increase my carb intake, and I might consider a light breakfast. A banana usually does it for me, but I'd be craving some coffee after the first couple of hours. Espresso flavored chews, I'd go for that... .

Warning: Questionable "scientific" content ... (for you know who)..

I liked this list & discussion of the pros of fasting, especially No. 7 -- the increase in mental energy/memory. I have experienced many of these benefits, so from where I'm sitting this presents is a decent argument for why it's worth giving IF'ing a 3-6 month personal test / see what happens.

https://www.w24.co.za/Wellness/Diet/...sting-20170320

Interesting. The concern I have is assessing exactly what "works". For example, yes I can handle the eating pattern (16:8) just fine and don't really want to change that. But when I ride or workout for training purposes, I always plan for the mid-afternoon or later since I have the option to do so and I then have eaten/drunk.

By comparison, the early morning start - and that silly mountain thing that early too! - is "unproven". I guess I could go out and ride early and see how I fare, but I'm not sure it is accurate, in my case, to say "it ain't broken", simply because I tend not to ride early and on an empty stomach. I don't plan to go crazy on the ride, but I want to push pretty hard and I'm not convinced that doing so without food or drink is a good move, even if I hold back a bit.

I appreciate the perspective.

If you aren't used to fasted rides, and especially intense fasted rides, do not try to start them now, its a slow and painful process, go back to the beginning of this thread where I detailed how I went about it. Also, I wouldn't consider eating breakfast a change in diet really. Your body, pysiologically isn't on a 16:8 schedule, it doesn't know the difference really. It uses more fat metabolism when its glycogen stores are getting low and slows that down when glycogen stores are high and/or there is food in the system, whether that occurs after 16 hours or 12 or 8 hours.

What were you eating during your feeding time? Do you have any blood sugar issues that you are aware of? Even subclinical - getting "hangry" or feeling irritable if you don't eat?

The reason why IF and proper fasting has so many benefits is because of something called autophagy, which was the subject of the Nobel prize in medicine in 2016. Autophagy literally translates to "self eating." When we are not in an mTOR state (cellular growth), we can switch into autophagy (cleaning mode, where the cell literally consumes less desirable debris inside the cell, like misfolded proteins and inflammation-causing waste).

There are many things that promote mTOR, but a few major ones are amino acids, folate (i.e. needed to grow a baby), fructose, and iron. We can't be in a state of mTOR at the same time as autophagy. When we fast, and studies show 16/8 is the optimal fasting/feeding time to promote autophagy, the cells are able to start cleaning house instead of dealing with the things coming into the cell that promote growth. This is why it's so good for inflammation because it is the time when the cell can clean and repair itself (we can't deep clean or repair our house if we have house guests, right?). Healthier cells = healthier glands, organs and systems.

I'm going to go ahead and guess you didn't read the rest of this thread.

Which studies have shown autophagy to occur in humans(not mice) from IF?

While he's looking you are free to provide those studies that shows that it does not. We should also keep in mind that observation comes before understanding. That is, we don't always need to know how something works, to know that it works.

The Journal Cell
Volume 157, Issue 7, 19 June 2014, Pages 1515-1526:

The Search for Antiaging Interventions: From Elixirs to Fasting Regimens

Cell
Volume 161, Issue 1, 26 March 2015, Pages 106-118
Promoting Health and Longevity through Diet: From Model Organisms to Humans
LuigiFontana

Cell Metabolism
Volume 19, Issue 2, 4 February 2014, Pages 181-192
Fasting: Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications
Valter D.Longo

Maaaan, I came late to the party and don't have time to read all of them! I figured it's no big deal if i'm writing what someone else already pointed out. I only replied because I need 10 posts before I can post pics of a bike to get estimates and because I've done a ton of research on mTOR and autophagy for work.

I've read that study previously. That didnt answer my question, no data from humans, only mice.

Yes, there are numerous mentions on the effects of humans in that study, as well as numerous references with links to human studies.

no, all the mentions and references to autophagy reference mice and rat studies which I specifically asked you not to provide.