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Intermittant Fasting 🍴

Old 09-03-18, 04:13 PM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
no, all the mentions and references to autophagy reference mice and rat studies which I specifically asked you not to provide.
I provided three references for you. And in the case of this one, Iím just going to leave it at disagreeing with you.
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Old 09-03-18, 06:39 PM
  #252  
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More on autophagy.


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Old 09-04-18, 08:20 AM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by jdowns View Post
Maaaan, I came late to the party and don't have time to read all of them! I figured it's no big deal if i'm writing what someone else already pointed out. I only replied because I need 10 posts before I can post pics of a bike to get estimates and because I've done a ton of research on mTOR and autophagy for work.
Long story short: it was dismissed as unproven at best by all but that Krane guy earlier in the thread.
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Old 09-04-18, 10:07 AM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by jdowns View Post


I provided three references for you. And in the case of this one, Iím just going to leave it at disagreeing with you.
You posted 3 reviews which do not cite a single paper that shows autophagy in humans, I'll even quote from one of the articles
There are only a few proposed aging interventions that have met such stringent criteria: fasting regimens, caloric restriction, exercise, and the use of low molecular weight compounds, including spermidine, metformin, resveratrol and rapamycin (Table 1). From a molecular point of view, these interventions may act through epigenetic mechanisms (histone acetylation/methylation), the insulin/TOR pathway, the Ras signaling pathway, mitochondrial function, proteostasis, autophagy, and stress resistance.
Because it simply has't been proven. Clinical trials are now JUST beginning to study the possibility in humans based on evidence in mice/rats and bacteria
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6096974/
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Old 09-04-18, 10:10 AM
  #255  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Long story short: it was dismissed as unproven at best by all but that Krane guy earlier in the thread.
I wouldn't go that far, there is a lot of preliminary evidence that it occurs under certain circumstances, but I'm skeptical is can occur in humans using a 16:8 IF if you are familiar at all about the differences between human and rodent metabolism. Much longer fasts are likely required, which are detrimental to cyclists who are actually interested in improving.
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Old 09-23-18, 03:01 AM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
I wouldn't go that far, there is a lot of preliminary evidence that it occurs under certain circumstances, but I'm skeptical is can occur in humans using a 16:8 IF if you are familiar at all about the differences between human and rodent metabolism. Much longer fasts are likely required, which are detrimental to cyclists who are actually interested in improving.
Yes, they can be counterproductive, particularly if you trying to maximize both simultaneously. Instead, I'd concentrate on one at a time, such as in the off-season (i.e. winter), then keep it moderate when you return to 100% cycling to better reap the benefits.

As for longer fasts, I'm loving it. I've moved to 24 hour fasts 3 time/week and a 30+ hour fast monthly. I have to admit that the 30 hour fast is a challenge for me so that likely would be my limit -- although I actually did get to 33 hours. You could go 36-48 but that would only net you roughly 10%, so I'm good with this protocol for now.

Last edited by KraneXL; 09-24-18 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 09-27-18, 07:34 PM
  #257  
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I came across this video recently. It offers some great suggestion to get the most out of your IF. Except for Keto fasting (best used when overweight/obese).

I've tried each on and can attest to their viability. My goal was to recop, and the fasted training has really worked well for me. This week I began heavy lifting for the second time since earlier this year.


Video Summary
1. Break the fast with something that won't spike insulin
2. Keto fasting
3. Increase the fasted time
4. Train while fasted
5. Lift heavy weights
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Old 10-01-18, 12:25 PM
  #258  
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Interested thread now my brain just exploded I just finished a 17 hour fast because of blood work and i I’m finding out that I feel better when I go a long time without eating. So I’m going to go many more hours between feedings as I usual do and see what happens. No strict regimen or following any science or diet plans. Just do my own thing and see. I will be off the bikes for awhile so I’m not burning excessive calories. I have notice I feel better when I let my body get depleted let my gut have a break and then eat a moderate size meal.
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Old 10-02-18, 09:52 PM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
<div style="text-align:left;">Interested thread now my brain just exploded I just finished a 17 hour fast because of blood work and i I’m finding out that I feel better when I go a long time without eating. So I’m going to go many more hours between feedings as I usual do and see what happens. No strict regimen or following any science or diet plans. Just do my own thing and see. I will be off the bikes for awhile so I’m not burning excessive calories. I have notice I feel better when I let my body get depleted let my gut have a break and then eat a moderate size meal.</div><br />
Baby steps, that's how I started. Now I'm doing a regular 16/8 and a 3x/week 24 hour fast without even thinking about it. Yesterday, I did my 30 hour monthly fast. Once you get into the habit, fasting will become a cakewalk and you can take it to the next step with a more formal diet. Just keep it up and don't quit.
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Old 10-03-18, 05:06 PM
  #260  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Baby steps, that's how I started. Now I'm doing a regular 16/8 and a 3x/week 24 hour fast without even thinking about it.
A 16 hour fast 4 days per week and 24 hour fast 3 days per week , so much fasting in one week ??...I think that's going overboard...If you are already fasting 16 hours on most days, then what is the benefit of adding a 24 hour fasts on top of that ??
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Old 10-03-18, 10:50 PM
  #261  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
A 16 hour fast 4 days per week and 24 hour fast 3 days per week , so much fasting in one week ??...I think that's going overboard... If you are already fasting 16 hours on most days, then what is the benefit of adding a 24 hour fasts on top of that ??
Overboard? Not even close. The duration and frequency depend of your goal, but all things equal, the longer the fast, the better -- up to a point, of course. Actually, 16//8 should be the norm and typical for most people. But the benefits derived from fasting continue well past that.

On the other hand, my 24 hour fast is intended to reap more of those benefits but is not as regimented as my daily fast. My point there was that it can be done, and without any loss or deleterious affects on your physicality, your mood or to your personality once you've adapted. In my research and experience, the benefits of IF continue to expand up to 48 hours. After that point, the benefits may continue for some, but the overall curve starts to diminish significantly.

For instance, if maximizing muscle tone, strength, and size are your goal if could begin to have a negative effect after that point. That is, someone who works at a desk may get away with it. However, someone who has a physical job may not.

In other words, going from 16 to 30 would net you a big improvement from fasting. But going from 30 to 48 are not nearly as profound as the first jump for people under a strength/tone regiment like myself. A relatively small amount of benefits for my needs, and not really worth the effort.

Just keep in mind that the length and frequency of your fast depends largely on your goal, and to a degree your physical condition and your diet. If you are a steak eater for example, it could take up to 72 hours after you've finished your meal for it to run its full digestive course and be completely out of your system. Just one example, of why you might want to fast for longer.
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Old 10-07-18, 10:46 PM
  #262  
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I've been doing this intermittent fasting for more than 5 months. I cannot for the life of me train well with power when I'm in the fasting period. I have no strength. And I'm no closer to my weight removal goals than when I started. I start eating at 1200 and usually stop at 800. Now if I ride in the afternoon or evening I have strength to do my workouts better. I am going to keep trying it for a little longer, but to be honest it really is not working out for me.
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Old 10-08-18, 09:30 AM
  #263  
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Originally Posted by timsmcm View Post
I've been doing this intermittent fasting for more than 5 months. I cannot for the life of me train well with power when I'm in the fasting period. I have no strength. And I'm no closer to my weight removal goals than when I started. I start eating at 1200 and usually stop at 800. Now if I ride in the afternoon or evening I have strength to do my workouts better. I am going to keep trying it for a little longer, but to be honest it really is not working out for me.
To be frank, "you're not doing it right." Although the levels of any diet can vary, IF can work for anyone when properly applied. However, you should keep in mind that IF does not come in a one size fits all package. There are a variations and levels of IF. The key is the "intermittent" part. The minimum is 16/8, but you can go much longer and with varying degrees of frequency. You have to experiment and choose the protocol that works best for you and fits your lifestyle.


From the little that you've given us (low energy), I suspect that your limitation may have to do with your diet. Is it the Warrior diet? Vegan? The Ketogenic diet? The PSMF? Remember, that an exercise routine centered around anaerobic training will require a different form of nutritional intake than one focused on aerobic training. If you haven't yet determined your best diet, you have to experiment with food, timing and calories to determine which has the most significant positive impact for your needs.


Since we all have different goals, IF needs to be personalized, and just like an exercise routine -- and diet -- that takes practice. On the other hand, you may just as likely not given it enough time. It took me nearly 2 weeks before I could get over the weakness and shaking that comes from fasted anaerobic training.


The last, but not least aspect of IF is rest. Are you getting enough of it, and is it meaningful continuous rest? Nothing can sap your energy faster than lack of sleep. There are countless diets to suit different people to help them reach their health and fitness goal. But remember, the IF just puts you in a more productive environment, its still the foods you consume that has the biggest impact on your success, to how you look and feel.
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Old 10-16-18, 04:42 PM
  #264  
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https://www.strongerbyscience.com/in...fasting-study/
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Old 10-16-18, 11:00 PM
  #265  
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That was an interesting study. Too bad you didn't put an intro or comment. Nevertheless, I can attest that IF does indeed get better with age.
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Old 12-18-18, 03:08 AM
  #266  
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Haven't posted anything IF lately, so I searched and found an excellent video that does a great job in summarizing the entire thread within twelve and a half minutes. Its a talking head (maybe a talking bobble head?) but it gets the message across.

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Old 02-01-19, 03:21 PM
  #267  
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A new paper just published discussing considerations for athletes utilizing intermittent fasting/energy restriction stolen from slowtwitch:
Intermittent Dieting: Theoretical Considerations for the Athlete

https://res.mdpi.com/...;attachment=1#page22

Talks to Intermittent Fasting as a method (and concludes no better than Continuos Energy Restriction for effectiveness [but doesn’t talk to this as a potentially better compliance method for Energy Restriction]) but this more covers the wider scope of Intermittent Energy Restriction (IER), and really that you need ‘breaks from ER diets with refeed periods at Energy Balance levels, as below;

Conclusions summary;

• Avoid severe IER and/or rapid weight loss. Severe ER may cause greater FFM losses than moderate ER, particularly in lean athletes. Severe ER may also adversely affect health and performance outcomes including reduced muscle strength, glycogen stores, and reflexes and increase the risk of injury due to fatigue and loss of FFM. It would be practicable for an athlete to adopt a moderate level of ER that encourages absolute body weight losses of 0.5–1% per week. Alternatively, an athlete may elect to reduce energy intake by a maximum of 35% relative to energy requirements for weight maintenance.
• Resistance exercise. Athletes implementing IER should be encouraged to partake in regimented resistance exercise as a means to attenuate FFM losses. Greater retention of FFM will likely minimise performance decrement during ER and may lead to greater fat loss efficiency by mitigating compensatory reductions in REE.
• Duration and ratios of ER and refeeds. With the limited human research available, a conservative practical recommendation is to alternate two weeks of moderate ER with two weeks in EB. Currently it is unknown whether this manipulation of energy intake is ideal for maximal fat loss and FFM retention or if additional arrangements of ER and refeeds may be superior.
• Coordinating refeed periods. It may be advantageous to synchronise intervals of EB with outcome-focused or high-volume training periods. This tactic may allow the athlete to perform optimally during training sessions by providing additional nutritional support and negating the adverse consequences of sustained, daily ER.
• High protein intake. High protein intakes may be beneficial to an athlete during IER by reducing FFM losses, providing greater satiety and increasing energy expenditure through the thermic effect of feeding. A daily protein intake range between 2.3 and 3.1 g/kg of lean body mass (which equates to approximately 2.0–2.6 g per kg of absolute body mass for an 80 kg athlete with 15% body fat) is likely an appropriate practical recommendation for athletes undergoing IER with concurrent resistance exercise.
• Emphasizing carbohydrate intake during refeeds. Although yet to be confirmed, it seems wise to place emphasis on increasing intake of carbohydrate during refeed periods opposed to increasing protein or fat. Elevated levels of leptin following carbohydrate feeding may cause stimulatory effects on energy expenditure and suppress appetite, leading to greater fat loss efficiency and easier diet adherence. Greater carbohydrate availability during refeed periods may also result in more pronounced anabolic responses when IER is applied in concert with resistance exercise, potentially reducing FFM losses during ER

Last edited by redlude97; 02-01-19 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 02-01-19, 11:11 PM
  #268  
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I can't say that the results of this study is something that I find totally out of favor, but the amount of protein to be way about what's needed even for active individuals. I think the greatest takeaway should be that the results apply to active athletes. However, the results on carbohydrate intake is still lacking any definitive totals. Simply "increasing intake" is insufficient.
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