akarius

Why would you care about any study that does not pertain to you, if you have not accomplished it it is not worth anything. All of the sudden studies are relavent when a few minutes ago they were not.

Is it that you do not agree with the scentific evidence so it is deemed wrong or useless, or can we not use the research of others to make informed decisions so we are not all using the trail and error method and starting back at the beginning every time we do something.

I do not agree with Mike's choice of diets, but if it works for him and he feels good by doing it then he should continue regardless of what the research say. At least Mike is looking for sound evidence and not just heresay. As lillypad said we are much to complex to be categorised by one study. When thousands of people are studied and the results are repeated consistently again and again does that not mean anything?

Although healthy humans are all different we share many things alike, that is why when one has a blood tested we can know about there health by looking at levels of chemicals in the blood. The same body systems in healthy people work in a predictable way, although there are variables some things can be predicted with great accuracy. If one is in a long protein deficit this is shown by pre-albumin levels. If it were not for studies the latter would not be known.

That being said I do not wholly agree with chipcom, but I respect your right to voice your opinion no matter what I think of it.

I do agree with you on the quoted post though that there is a balanced needed, because when I do not balace all my food and execersise my health suffers.

Thank you

steveknight

The whole fat is bad saturated fats deal has been way overblown. I think a typical low carb diet could be just the absence of garbage carbs. Sugars wheat and other low nutritional carbs. Hell just eliminating all the junk food would do it for most people. Most foods that are pre made have sugar in them and bad fats.
The food pyramid was based on corporate input not human nutrition. You can see who spent the most bucks. The veggie or fruit farmers or the wheat/grain farmers? Just look at the aisles at the store several of cereals and breads far more then anything else. But most people don’t need that many carbs. They tend to be low in nutrition and high in calories.
Humans have eaten high fat forever but now it is killing us? What’s wrong with the picture? Cholesterol is horrible but natural sources of it tend to cause the body to produce less cholesterol. But if you listen to current heath advice it is a horrible thing we all should avoid.
Lazyness and fast foods/junk food pre prepared foods are the bad things. Plus our low quality foods that are mass produced these days.

akarius

Can you substatiate this claim or is it your opinion

chipcom 

Perhaps because the tried and proven methods have accomplished results, which is why they are tried and proven? I'm not the one debating all the the studies, none of which attempt to disprove the tried and proven, but are rather trying to build a better mousetrap...you are all doing that just fine by yourselves...I merely stated the obvious, that none of these studies disprove the tried and proven methods that have achieved results for decades, if not longer. Results are reality, studies are...studies.

AnthonyG

Someone else refered to one of my posts claiming that I stated that my diet was carbohydrate free and being concerned that I was wrong because I was eating fruit which of course are carbohydrates. Lets put this straight. I claim that I have a LOW carbohydrate diet and incase you didn't know, vegetables are carbohydrates! Grains are grains and foods like potato's, sweet potato's and pumkin are starches which I normaly don't have but sometimes I consume small amounts of them.

Regards, Anthony

steveknight

do a little research thats the best way to learn. but if it was so great why was it changed? those who can pay the most push the goverment where they want it. look at the infuence the sugar industry had on the government. the fake sugar companies pushed out the natural sweetner stevia so they could make larger profits. made the FDA not reccomend it even though it has bene proven safe for thousands of years.

akarius

You say they rely on tradition but they disprove other peoples theories by saying that there is sceientific evidence to prove it but they do not let the reader access the reference, this implies that they are hiding something. You also claim that people ate more saturated fats on the old days, maybe this is why lifespan was so short. Also the people in the past times led much shorter lives and were less healthy. Now you go on to say check the statistics but you do not supply a source. If we relied on tradidtion today we would far less advanced than we are today.

akarius

The food pyramid probably because of research and an understanding of the nutrients. I have not seen the food pyramid because I am north of the border.

I do lots of research but not on the subject you quote. If it is part of a conspiracy theory can you do more than offer your opinion, if you have the proof that it is a conspiracy will you not prove it? It would be nice to know how you came to the opinion that it is big business paying for there spot on the pyramid, and not just say something arbitrarily.

AnthonyG

Well firstly post a link to the article you are refering to. The WAPF site is generaly well referenced so I don't know which article you are refering to. See the link I posted about the supposed short lives of our ancestors. Cause and effect is needed here. Some of our ancestors had short lives but they would have been the early city dwellers living in squalour without running water or sewerage. It's got nothing to do with diet except maybe a LACK of animal fats. People subsisting on a grain only diet isn't that healthy.

Regards, Anthony

akarius

Well Anthony I am going to have to eat my words regarding the reference thing, I did not look thoroughly at the site as I should have. Please accept my apology and disregard all the statements I said earlier about the credibility of refrence material regarding your sight. I was wong and at your request I will post this retraction on all the posts where that concern the subject of the validity of of the sight you recomended.

Thank you

AnthonyG

This retraction is sufficient. I didn't want to claim that every last article on the WAPF site was fully refferenced, or that no one would want to challenge some of the references however I was at a loss to know which article you were reffering to. There are numerous articles on the WAPF site from guest contributors.

Regards, Anthony

mcavana

Sure, people live longer now a days for various reasons.. but were they really less healthy? the obesidy %'s are way higher now!!!!! Diabeties is way up too!!! Americas health in regards to food intake has gone down the shtter!

akarius

Yes, I worded this to elicit a response. I spend time working at the nursing home, and in reviewing charts I often wonder, if they were not on so many drugs and had so many operations would they still be alive. Why are we living longer, is it the lives we lead or is it medicine and science. I know if i was born 100 years ago I would have not seen my first birthday. I also wonder about immunizations, are they making us weaker as a race or stonger. Or is it just creating superbugs like MRSA and the like.

My opinion is one of balance and trying to eat the good stuff that the earth provides, and try to enjpy yourself along the way. If someone makes it for you or the directions are on a box that it came in I try to avoid it.

lillypad

The new discoveries have outweighed the new problems. Simple vaccines now get people past diseases that may have taken 50 years off their lives. A person that got past all the common diseases from back then and died of "natural causes" lived nearly as long as a person would today (three score and ten).

mrfreddy

one of the many wondeful aspects of low carbing is that you actually lose your cravings for sugary sweet things... hard to believe but it is absolutely true. must be because you are giving your body what it needs - fats and proteins. It's a scientific fact that your body does not actually need carbs, ask the eskimos, they know...

lillypad

The basic diet and exercise and the "calories in be less than the calories out" will work if you can't seem to cut out certain types of food from your diet. It is very important that you continue to exercise and try to increase the amount and quality of your exercise as you lose weight.

There have been many studies conducted that have shown a correlation between exercise and the ability to lower the body's "set point", the weight that your body wants to maintain. It certainly has for me. Do some research on this topic. I think that you will find the results very interesting.

akarius

Have you taken a look at all the culture bound syndromes that only the Inuit suffer because of their lack of carbs? There are ceratain diseases that only they suffer from because of the megadoses of vitamins that they ingest as a result of thier high protein diet. Even they have not fully adjusted to an all meat diet.

I have heard that people who eat only protien can suffer from protein poisoning if there is not enough fat attached to the meat they eat, but I guess thats why the Inuit always consumed alot of fat along with the meat.

Your body may not need that many carbs but your brain is the major consumer of carbs, whithout carbs you brain is not getting the fuel that it needs.

mrfreddy

I dont know about the diseases you refer to regarding the inuiits, could you provide more detail? I do know that EVERY primitive society found still subsisting on the hunter gather model, ie. eating a lot of fat and protein, have been found to have no cancer, no heart disease, no diabetes... (well, not until they switch to a modern diet...)


this brain sugar requirement is just another fallacy that anti-low carb folks love to bring up, nevermind it has no scientifiic basis. yes your brain needs a tiny amount of sugar, which your body is happy to provide, whether you consume carbs or not... I've been eating very little carbs for almost 4 years, and, as far as I know, my brain hasn't conked out... I forget the name of the process, but your body very easily converts protein to glucose as needed... glucogenisis or something like that?

lillypad

Gluconeogenesis (the creation of new glucose) is the production of glucose from noncarbohydrate sources. This means that you (and your brain) can survive with absolutely no carbohydrate consumption. This process occurs during starvation or extremely low carbohydrate diets. The brain is the only part of the body that requires glucose in order to function. The rest of the body can survive on ketones (the product of fat breakdown).

lillypad

akarius - Megadoses of vitamins due to a high-protein diet? Which vitamins?

AnthonyG

OK I'm a big advocate of a high fat/protein diet but there's one thing I better set you straight on. Inuits DO eat some carbohydrates and some carbohydrates ARE important to them.

Are you ready for this. Stop eating and drinking before you read the next line.

Inuits eat the stomach contents of there prey providing them with partially/pre digested carbs!!

Also the megadose of vitamins scare tactics stem from the consumption of huge amounts of animal fats and animal fats are a huge source of vitA and vitD. Mega dosing can be an issue but the harmfull effects of it are overblown. Overdosing of REAL vitA and vitD will correct itself quickly once the dose is reduced and no long term harm has been noted.

Now overdosing on SYNTHETIC vitA and vitD is a different story. That is harmful so take it easy on your suppliments. What's happened here is that is has been shown clinicaly that high levels of synthetic vitA has caused harm so they have simply ASSUMED that real vitA has the same effect with no evidence at all. See, https://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...aminasaga.html

Regards, Anthony

angelo

Just for fun, here are some consumables (including food) used up by a pro cycling team in a season (guess which country)...



link to above

mrfreddy

um... I'll think I'll stick with buttered brocoll and asparagus, thank you.... would partially digested carbs count as refined carbs, ha haaa?? anyway, nobody really needs carbs, but they are a good source of some nice nutrients, as long as the starch/sugar content is low enough to not knock your blood sugar for a loop. that said, perhaps because of their particular diet, there is something in those stomach contents that the inuits need, do you have any idea what it is? I know they get their vitamin c through some strange source, like eating eyeballs or something equally weird.

Jarery

heck, all a body 'needs' is a mixture in a drip like they give coma patients. The body never 'needs' to get out of bed and the mind never 'needs' to wake up.

But i think i'll stick to waking up, and living each day. That includes eating balanced meals. I eat what i want, just everything in moderation. You guys going to each extreme of the food chain are just whacko in my mind

AnthonyG

I used to have a link to a realy good article on the Inuit but I can't find it or the article on the web for them moment. Yes eyeballs are realy healthy. They used to deliberately let there fish ROT as well. An aquired taste but it increased the nutrients.

Personaly I eat my vegetables and I'm not reccomending that anyone shouldn't. You just don't need the grains or starches although in moderation and with the right preperation there OK.

Regards, Anthony